Peggy Orenstein: "Cinderella Ate My Daughter"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-01-27/peggy-orenstein-cinderella-ate-my-daughter
Pink is everywhere today. Walk into any toy store and it is easy to recognize items meant for little girls -- sparkly dress-up clothes, tiaras, even pink sports equipment. Some mothers embrace their daughters’ choice to celebrate femininity – especially given their success in the classroom and on the playing field. Others question what princess mania may mean for girls as they become young teens. Still others see the new girlie-girl culture as a product of mass marketing that threatens to consume their daughters. The dark side of pretty and pink: how choices we make for our toddlers can influence their teenage years and beyond.
Guests
Peggy Orenstein
author
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
Before we had our daughter, a kid’s clothing store called Honeys and Heroes opened up in our town.
Cringeworthy, eh? Why would you want to tell girls that they are 'honeys,' while boys get to be 'heroes'?
As the New York Times Book Review of Cinderella Ate My Daughter also points out: to sell, of course!
Disney is one of the main culprits, with their relentless princess products merchandising to girls, and their Princesses & Heroes On Ice shows.
(It's not Princesses and Princes; it's Princesses and Heroes. Think about the message this sends to girls and, if you're inspired, email Disney corporate.)
Because of our disgust with the whole 'princess-industrial complex,' my wife and I made a conscious effort not to register for anything 'princessy' for our daughter’s baby shower.
What happened?
A lot of princess happened.
We don’t believe in throwing away clothes because of their color, but I am documenting this ‘occasional pink’ phase and will show it to Naomi when she’s a little older. My message is simple: there’s nothing wrong with princesses; it’s just that they’re not a great match for girls. Unlike princesses and ‘honeys,’ girls don’t need to wait to be rescued by princes and heroes. They can do great things on their own. They can be heroes.
So, yes, princesses are a necessary part of our world. In fact, I think they're a great match for the most dependent beings of all -- babies.
--David
1000BabySteps.com
(1000 small steps toward a better life for all grown-ups, based on what I learn from my baby daughter over the next 1000 days.)
Popular among young girls today?? I am 54 years old, and I have a very clear memory from childhood. I was about 6 and shopped with my mother for a dress for a party. I wanted the pink, frilly one. She thought it was tacky and would not let me get it. My own daughter also loved pink and frilly as a little girl (and we had no television in the house when my children were growing up, so ads were not an influence).
It seems to me that whatever girls like, we degrade. What is wrong with liking pink and frilly? Boys and girls are different from one another. That does not make either one "less than." Yet we continue to look down upon anything "feminine."
I would argue that the real feminist view would support whatever girls like and choose to do, whether that is to wear pink and frilly, work as a doctor, or stay home and raise children and make a home. These are all honorable professions.
My son went through a phase where he dressed up in sparkly dresses when he and his older sister were playing princesses. We didn't discourage it. At three years old, they're all pretty gender-neutral anyway and what's not to like about being a princess. Long-term effects for him? I doubt it. Like for his sister, it was something to do at the time and both have moved on. Right now, both like to pretend they are dogs and the other is the friendly, dog-loving owner.
Hank
I've got 3 children, only one of which I'm having the 'pink princess' problem with due to peer pressure, and the 'I wants'.
So I have developed an allergy to pink which I use often as an excuse to not go down the Disney/Barbie Pepto (r) isle at any particular store.
I refuse to worship at the green commercialized alter that has become Disney/Barbie (r), I enjoy their movies, but feel I must teach my children about the 'they get richer, while we get poorer' effect.
With that said it's awfully hard sometimes to deal with the whole princess mess when my neighbor with her two young daughters (the same age as one of my daughters) does worship at the pink princess alter, pink room, pink cloths, pink plates/bowls/cups, pink movies, and pink toys. -- yes the occasional blue princess thrown in for good measure. And the attitude 'aw it's just fun, they'll grow out of it', but lately same neighbor has realized her daughters aren't growing out of it.............like she thought they would.
Should a grrl be thought that she should always be treated like a princess? Yes/No answer to that question -- yes she deserves respect, but she also had better be able to give respect. Treating our daughters as princesses might just be setting them up for a steep learning curve when they enter the real world. So throw some police, fireman, doctor, and superhero costumes in the mix, and round out their world view.
No, unless she's lucky enough to find a partner who's going to be willing to carry on that delusion, she better learn to get along with others. Life involves hard work, I think I've only seen two maybe three hard working Disney princesses (two of whom stop working once they become princesses).
Choosing to celebrate femininity is commendable, but parents should challenge any definition of femininity that mandates uniformity of compromising gender roles. Why do girls "choose" pink and princess? Because they are hammered with these images from infancy.
I challenge parents to raise daughters to be their own heroes, not wait for a prince. Expecting a man with money to come along and make it all better "for ever after" is a trap. It creates helpless, even useless women. The pink color scheme is just a flag for all this. Later consequences mean male fashions are almost always more practical than women's. Dresses and high heels render you less prepared for the elements than a business suit and flat soled shoes. The very clothing women end up wearing requires that they need more care if not looking after by men.
Make it stop.
I agree with you completely Rebecca..."I would argue that the real feminist view would support whatever girls like and choose to do, whether that is to wear pink and frilly, work as a doctor, or stay home and raise children and make a home. These are all honorable professions."
I am 43 and loved barbies, not sure if pink was my favorite color, but I loved dressing like a princess.
My husband and I chose not to have children. I own my own marketing firm and I hate to cook. Did dressing like a princess or playing with barbies cause that? Or did my parents just raise a daughter to think for herself and enjoy playing with whatever made me happy?
I am very appreciative of your guest and the topic. I believe not only does this concept restrict the potential and abilities of young girls, but it also leaves them with unrealistic expectations when it comes to finding their prince charming and trying to have a family.
My four year old daughter loves trains! I constantly have other moms and kids comment on how "weird" or "different" it is for a little girl to like so-called toys for boys. For her last boirthday my daughter asked for a Thomas the Train cake - but specified that it HAD to be pink. I asked her why. She told me that she didn't want a "boy cake".
I am so glad that you are talking about this. I was at the store the other day and a woman gave my daughter something and she said, "Here you go, princess." I was taken aback by the presumption that she should address my girl as princess.
With that said, I too have indulged my daughters with the Disney princess toys. However, I have become aware of and disturbed by the trend from princess into "diva" or "drama queen". I want my girls to seem themselves as gracious young ladies--nothing more.
I am so glad that you are talking about this. I was at the store the other day and a woman gave my daughter something and she said, "Here you go, princess." I was taken aback by the presumption that she should address my girl as princess.
With that said, I too have indulged my daughters with the Disney princess toys. However, I have become aware of and disturbed by the trend from princess into "diva" or "drama queen". I want my girls to seem themselves as gracious young ladies--nothing more.
Young children live in a land of play in their minds. It helps them feel safe & create their own reality as well as protects them from the harshness of real life. As long as parents teach them that princesses work hard & do their chores & love their parents & are smart, everything works out!
My 4 year old daughter loves TRAINS! I constantly have other moms and kids comment on how "weird" or "different" it is for a little girl to like so-called toys for boys. For her last birthday she asked for a Thomas the Train cake - but specified that it HAD to be PINK. I asked her why. She told me that she didn't want a "boy cake."
Curious if the author dressed her new baby in little girl cloths or painted the babies room with pastel's etc....Little girls are special....thank you
One year I bought my girls bright red coats because I was so tired of pink. My second daughter is a Mechanical Engineer in her late 20's. She still hates pink!
I have a seven year old daughter as well and have found it is so hard to buy a bike or toy that isn't smeared in Disney princesses without costing significantly more. I have been discussing this with friends and seeing this cross over into adults as well in seeing people building their dream homes that are starting to resemble mini castles-as if they are entitled to living this princess image.
Good for you. I am trying to use alternate colors too!
Peggy Orenstein has too much time on her hands. At least her book will be good for fish wrap.
.
Diane and Peggy
I have not yet read the book, but plan to do so. I am the mother of two young boys, ages 3 and 9months and am interested in reading about and exploring this phenomenon from the perspective of the messages it sends to young boys as they grow up.
Peggy, do you have any thoughts on this?
I see this as leading to boys who grow up to focus on girls' appearances and having certain expectations of how girls and women should look and act--needing to be rescued, for example. If boys are also observing this from a young age, it certainly shapes how these girls will be viewed when they get to school, university, and the workplace. I see that this can have overarching effects on our culture as a whole!
Heidi
Interesting discussion. As a mother of a son, who is now in college, I have seen him struggle trying to find a young woman he can relate to. He wants someone who is fun, athletic, and with little makeup. Throughout high school, he "tried" to date the makeup encrusted, "fashionable" girls, but found them shallow and boring. Let's get girls into sports and nature, where they can learn to relate to a larger world that isn't so materialistic. Perhaps this trend is a sign of our times.
My only daughter--I have 3 sons--is almost 17. We were so thrilled to finally have a girl that we pushed her toward hair bows, pink clothing, ballet classes and barbie dolls. I could write a book called "My daughter ate the barbie dolls." We finally realized she was not a girly-girl when she ate the feet off of her third barbie at age 6. We threw out the occasional make-up kit a well-meaning relative gave her at age 8 or 10. She rarely wears make-up even now, although on dressy occasions she enjoys looking and feeling feminine. I attribute her well-balanced attitude to the personality she was born with, living with a house full of brothers, and the fact that in 7th grade we put her in a single sex girls school where the girls are for the most part grounded, play sports, have a variety of interests and are not encouraged to look "hot." Ever. Probably the most important reason our daughter is so balanced is that as parents we would NEVER have allowed her to be sexualized with racy outfits, make up at grade school age (seriously? parents think that's a good thing??!!). We are teaching her what real femininity is--women are different than men, but equal in dignity. Our culture doesn't even get that, much less promote it.
This is puritanical talk along the lines of muslim culture that expects women to be invisible and meek.
Beauty, as well as the modern expression of this value - glam and glitz - and the decoration of the body and face have been around since tribal man. And they have always been about power and influence.
Peggy's technique in selling meek and invisible images of women as politically liberated is done by creating confusion about two completely different categories: appropriate childhood behavior vs. being a woman.
The two issues do not overlap.
My first child, a girl, was born in 1996. I purposefully avoided pink as much as I could. I put her in simple dresses and tights so that she looked like a girl, but refused to go the 'girly' route the way many of my friends did. Thank goodness, my daughter didn't like the pink and sparkles anyway. I feel so fortunate to have missed what is happening to younger girls now.
Diane, dont know if you'll read this but this story struck home with me. We have a 3 year old daughter and 2 year old son. for halloween we got her a princess outfit and him a dragon. We tried on the outfits and when our daughter saw our son in the dragon costume she wanted nothing to do with the princess. Needless to say, we had two fire breathing dragons for halloween...lesson learned. Conversely, our son seems to be more interested in whats going on in the kitchen when we're cooking, so he got a kitchen for his birthday.
By the way, I just ordered Peggy's book from Amazon.
Dave
As a pre adolesent in the 1950's there was nothing I wanted more than a Barbie doll. I worked hard to earn that doll and once I was allowed to have one I measured everything of value to me against that doll. One time I paid a camp counsler the highest complement I could give her, which was "you look just like my Barbie doll". My infatution with Barbie did not get in the way of my later sucess in a career field that is almost entirely male. My suggestion is that instead of worrying about Cinderella, parents cultivate a love of the out of doors in their daughters (and sons). Both interests can exist in the same person simutaneously and programs like Outward Bound can have an incredible impact on a girls self-confidence and fascination with the natural world.
From Gary in Woodbridge:
My daughter Naomi was born in 1999 and, sure enough, we experienced Disney Princess books, movies and costumes (including "Princess Pcochontas" ?!). We also attended the commensurate Disney Princess ICE SHOWS (e.g., Arial on Ice). Perhaps the most curious aspect of these high-priced, heavily-merchandized shows was this:
At the end of each show as the Princess and her cohorts skated back onto the ice, who of all "people" show up to join the encore cast? Mickey and Goofy! It was so incongruous - little kids had/have zero affinity with M & G unless they'd been to Disnew World - and demonstrated some desperarion on Disney's part to keep their core brand alive in spite of their overwhelming Princess emphasis.
From Gary in Woodbridge:
My daughter Naomi was born in 1999 and, sure enough, we experienced Disney Princess books, movies and costumes (including "Princess Pcochontas" ?!). We also attended the commensurate Disney Princess ICE SHOWS (e.g., Arial on Ice). Perhaps the most curious aspect of these high-priced, heavily-merchandized shows was this:
At the end of each show as the Princess and her cohorts skated back onto the ice, who of all "people" show up to join the encore cast? Mickey and Goofy! It was so incongruous - little kids had/have zero affinity with M & G unless they'd been to Disnew World - and demonstrated some desperarion on Disney's part to keep their core brand alive in spite of their overwhelming Princess emphasis.
Once again, someone making money on over thinking something. Stop the insanity!
Peggy's mind is very mushy, the more you think about it.
"Cinderella" is a story about family politics and power, and how female misogyny plays a crucial role in these struggles. She is stirring a non-sensical soup in order to sell puritanical meekness and invisibility in girls, as well as encouraging them to reject the power of feminity.
This sort of thinking is what feeds misogyny in young girls whose only ideal is how to act and look like men. A lesson in loathing your gender and yourself.
The official logo on our local high school cheerleader jackets:
"There are two kinds of people..Cheeerleaders" (on the front)
(on the back) ..."and those who want to be".
So much for rallying team spirit among the student body!