A Conversation with Richard Dreyfuss
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-01-24/conversation-richard-dreyfuss
When he was twelve years old, Richard Dreyfuss had four ambitions – to be an actor, to become a movie star, to go into politics and to become a history teacher. For the past fifty years, he’s been acting in theater and films. His credits include,"Jaws," "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," "Mr. Holland’s Opus," and "The Goodbye Girl," for which he won an Oscar. Now he’s closing in on the rest of his goals. He’s launched an initiative to encourage a civics curriculum in public schools. And, he’s just made his debut at the Kennedy Center, narrating a piece written for the National Symphony Orchestra to mark the fiftieth anniversary of JFK's inauguration.
Guests
Richard Dreyfuss
actor and activist
Comments
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I am appalled that the US push for education reform has focused on math, reading and science but has completely the all-important roll of history and civics. In the 90's I was on a committee which tried to push our state to include these subjects in its reform but the demand for better educated workers far outweighed concern over better prepared citizens.
A democracy must have citizens who are well educated in government and history in order to survive yet the US is falling even further behind in this.
I want to thank Mr. Dreyfus for his efforts and ask how can I become involved again in the effort to correct this dangerous mistake?
Years ago, Richard Dreyfuss co-authored a delightfully fanciful book; The Two Georges, using a twist on history. The result was an above average "timetable" murder mystery set it an America which evolved quite differently due to the premise that we lost the American Revolution and we evolved as a colony, not an independent country.
I have waited and waited to see this book reproduced on film. Will that ever happen?
Thanks to public broadcasting I have had my memories as an early boomer and the repeated civics lessons that hammer into me the values of our nation and its form of government. I was especially struck by the comments of Justice OConnor on her memories of her civics lessons in primary and secondary school; her's were the same as mine. And I was shocked when she emphasized the lack of civics education requirements today (I don't have any kids myself).
Like the Justice, the lessons were often repetitive and boring, BUT they did instill in me the core values of our nation and its form of government, and the critical role it plays in our success as a nation, and the responsibility and privilege we have in public service and in in paying taxes for the constitutional purpose of general welfare, paying debt, and defense.
I would point out to those who are in Congress that the very first enumerated power of Congress is to levy taxes to pay the debts of the United States.
Let me repeat, the first enumerated power of Congress is to levy taxes to pay the debts, as well as provide for the general welfare and the defense of the United States.
It was the inability to tax that more than anything else led to the replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution.
While not stated in that form, paying taxes to support the role of government under the constitutions of the nation and the several States was a critical responsibility of citizenship. (I grew up the bastion of liberalism with its civics education mandate, I suppose: Indiana)
Ack! Diane Rehm, I love you, but I had to turn off the radio, Richard Dreyfuss is so annoying. If one is going to pontificate on the meaning of "exemplify" it is useful to know what it actually means, which he does not. He should perhaps have stayed in college. Speaking of which, how does somebody who dropped out of college teach history, exactly? And why, Diane, when you are so terrific at probing & challenging guests who are political, do you just let the nonsense that celebrities spew continue unabated?
Mr. Dreyfus does a credible job of articulating the current iteration of bitter political discourse. While I know him to be a liberal icon, he has suborned his natural advocacy for one political viewpoint to address a problem that even my students here in Massachusetts see and understand..that the politically active talk/yell/scream at one another and rarely converse with one another. Having been embroiled in a publicly partisan debate with Sen. Scott Brown over his anti-gay marriage stance, I know how difficult it can be to stay more balanced in political discussion, so I am thankful to hear Mr. Dreyfus' setting the better example.
This is a worthwhile conversation, but I would say that many young people do feel pride in our country. My two sons in their 20s both feel passionately about their good fortune to have been born here, and they give back in many ways via volunteering and even career choices. Thank God for that!
I submit the amount of violence in our entertainment industry, movies, television, music and video games, have a much more corrosive effect to our society than our political discourse. Just as an example...successful movie properties like the "Saw" series. What does Mr. Dreyfus think of the Hollywood culture that cashes in on violence in our society?
Mr. Dreyfess and Ms. Rehm, are you familiar with Model United Nations? It is a high school and college organization which has whole schools and participating students take on the role of a country and then go to a UN conference to represent the country with the beliefs, policies and goals of that country. It teaches students how others believe, rule, make policy, and what they value and it is a great way to teach tolerance and understanding. If more schools would do MUN as well as the curriculum and goals you have described, Mr. Dreyfess, the education of students would improve tremendously AND be sustainable rather than forgettable.
I thank Richard Dreyfuss for his advocacy. I have often wondered what to make of the lack of OUTRAGE. Yet, as an outraged citizen, other than trying to influence my representatives and support those who support my views, HOW DO I USE THAT OUTRAGE to make positive changes????
Richard, maybe to atone for past younger transgressions, you appear to model in your own fashion, (as I who have been compared uncannily to you countless times), live your life as Socrates advocated, learn your first third of your life, experience your second third, teach for your last third.
Listening to Richard Dreyfuss, I was intrigued by the story of his father having engaged torture and immediately recalled the stories about the unreliability of tortured confessions and almost simultaneously my brain recalled the story I had heard last week about a police officer in Chicago having tortured African American men into confessions from the 70s to the 90s. Then I heard Mr. Dreyfuss speak of how, as a child he was “in love” with America. My heart sunk and my heart recalled how jealous I was of white people because they could be in love with America. I admired what America had done in many respects but I was so angry that America could go overseas and save the Jews but not save us, the Negroes right here. As a little child I wondered who I could call to let the good white people out there know how we were being treated. My heart still remembers…
Yet I agree that we need civic education and civil discourse. Somehow, we are still family - Dreyfuss, Diane & I ...
Thank you Mr. Dreyfuss for not only speaking about this issue but taking action. I am a homeshooling Mother of 2 young men& I also am part of a cooperative of 25 families- where I lead a Student Government/Civics class (last session the theme was "Bill of rights:the first 10ammendments/ protecting the ppl from the govt". The loss of true instruction of CIVICS& History, in our public education system contributed to my decision to home educate. A loss of understanding of what it should mean to be an American citizen(the freedom to know who& why you are), will led to an undoing of what it means to be an American citizen.
Thank you for this very interesting interview.
I think president Obama should ask Mr. Dreyfuss to be part of his cabinet! He'd be a wonderful addition.
As a former high school history teacher, and current homeschool mom, I applaud your efforts. As a high school teacher our civics lesson were non existent and in current high school classes lessons are handed down to you as to how they are to be taught and not to allow the individual teacher to tailor it to the class or add their own input. Our constant refrain from Principals was you cannot teach that it is not on the state test. I would love to see your outlines for your class and as a homeschool mom can teach others what you are talking about.
Richard! If you want to teach that class, don't wait for someone to invite you -- make it happen, create the class yourself, 'if you build it they will come' you know -- it's too important not to do it, and it will never be acceptable to the public education system b/c they believe they're already doing well enough. Go out and do it, man!! Your voice is critical right now to counter the arch-conservative loudmouths. Thanks for being who you are.
Mrs. Rehm and Mr. Dreyfuss, Thanks for an excellent and important show.
Diane, please share this with Mr. Dreyfuss. I am in agreement with Mr. Dreyfuss. Our country is changing so quickly now. I want our country to last another 200 years. This is the only country where your views can be expressed without the real fear that so many other have of being persecuted. I believe that as Mr. Dreyfuss has said before “it is the love of country” that makes the difference. Through American Civics, American History and American Economics students of all ages can understand why this is a wonderful country. My children have moved beyond the grade school years but I was very active in their education. The national educational standards & state school boards are overly focused on mathematics and science. I work with many people that never use math beyond a basic level. But all citizens in America have the right to vote. It is only through understanding of American Civics, American History and American Economics that those same citizens will see, feel and value their country and ultimately their rights as citizens. Those same rights that are “daily coming under attack”.
Diane, please share the web address for Mr. Dreyfuss’s initiative which is http://www.thedreyfussinitiative.org/
Richard Dreyfuss is truly an inspirational person. "Mr. Hollands Opus" is one of my top three favorite movies of ALL TIME. I went home for the holidays this past December and "Mr. Hollands Opus" was being played on local TV networks, so I put it on. I was deeply moved by the performance of Mr. Dreyfuss. His passion in the movie transcends to his life passions and until I heard the interview this morning, had no idea that Mr. Dreyfuss wanted to be in politics or be a teacher, which further resonated in me a deeper respect for him.
In summation, Mr. Dreyfuss is one in a billion and we need more people like him now more than ever. The passion that Mr. Dreyfuss and others like him have inspired me to become a full time writer and political activist. In particular, I am quickly becoming an advocate for Teachers benefits, pay and the like. My step-sister is a teacher in Fairfax County, Virginia and relayed to me the severity of our educational situation.
Keep up the good work Mr. Dreyfuss and know that you are supported and appreciated!
Cheers,
~Bryce
Tempe, Arizona
Darcy,
Henry Ford never completed High School and yet revolutionized the way we transport ourselves.
Thomas Edison never had ANY schooling and yet transformed the way we live our lives.
So before you make comments like this, take time to understand that "higher education" isn't for everybody. Just because YOU have a degree doesn't mean that everybody else has to. Its sad that a 25 year old had to remind you of this, but I was simply shocked by your lack of understanding and compassion in your statement. How callus and ignorant.
Wow. I am riveted to hear these insightful words that finally confront, take aim and hit the mark toward the priorities needed to reform our failing educational system. As a former teacher, and patriot of history and civics learning, I am so fed up with the continual replay emphasizing 'Math and Science.....to compete' by political leaders every time they speak of education reform! We must stop the use of our youth as pawns on the political board game and get back on track providing for(also, and rightfully) civics-informed Americans who have the tools to participate in positive ways.I totally agree with R. Dreyfus' accounts; the importance of knowing and learning from our own history, and the ever useful civic history elsewhere is essential learning as (I think) also a cornerstone, after the primary grades, to be build upon throughout higher education.We need to support this rare opportunity of someone leading this subject in the right direction!
Thank you Diane, NPR, and R. Dreyfuss!
To Marissa Burton: Thank you for your skepticism about "civics" as taught in our public high-schools...or should I call them "warehouses"? To "lynnmom1": Thank YOU for your examples of why Mrs. Burton is so skeptical; examples from first-hand, eyewitnessed experience!
When I was 13-14 (and completely happy at Ala. School of Fine Arts), my grandparents transferred me to this college-prep high-school just south of Birmingham. Was miserable down there; suddenly, my As & Bs plummeted down to Ds & Fs. Have to give that school this much credit, however: Their civics class showed filmstrips (and accompanying worksheets) from Consumer Reports' publishers: Shampoos/Conditioners (also Pain Medicines & Acne Pimples): The Claims & the Facts. Imagine that you received consumer-information, and s-o-m-e small amount of "Media-Awareness"---as a 14-yr.-old eighth-grader! Canadian public-schools (from what I've heard) incorporate Commc'l.-Media-Awareness into each Soc. Studies or English class. By law, from Ottawa!
Now---try to imagine such materials (updated for 21st century classrooms, of course)...try to imagine your ytpical, American, public-school principal even allowing Commc'l.-Media-Awareness into your childrens' & teens' school. Imagine your city or county school board & superintendent even budgeting for such worksheets, DVDs, & other software. SSSuuurrre
Elizabeth B, Perhaps you didn't mean that you were appalled by the push for reading. Reading well is a major key in learning, especially where history and civics is concerned. I also think good writing skills (so close to reading abilities) are a right of all students.
Richard Dreyfus made the statement that 8000 Bank of America employees quite over mortgage paperwork irregularities. Sounded odd to me and I was not able to locate anything on this from any source. Needless to say the host did not correct him or challange him on this statement
Great show, thank you! While deployed last time to Iraq, I performed some volunteer work helping local Iraqis rebuild structures. While working on one building, a group of local men and women were watching me at a distance, so I asked if everything was okay. My translator queried the group, and an elderly man, probably a leader within the community, said that they wanted to make sure the building was proceeding well. I asked why was THIS building so important. The reply was that it was going to be a school for local children, and that it was important to start teaching them soon about history and civics because those who are adults now would get through the transition to a new government, but it was the CHILDREN who would need to be educated enough to SUSTAIN it, else it would fall. Upon my return home, I immediately began my Master's in Education so that I could teach because that same sustainment axiom applies to US children as much as Iraqis. After my Master's, I started my Phd in Educational Leadership, and with my recent retirement from service in November, am finishing that work while looking for a career position to continue the lesson that elder taught me that day.
Thanks greatly for accepting my second try at this. To Faith Rogers: THANK YOU for providing Mr. Dreyfuss' own Web-address! You see, Diane Rehm's toll-free number was already busy when NPR's headlines-summary ended. In a few minutes, I was in another room, and far too busy to either call-in or to type-in. What a let-down! Thanks to you, Mrs. Rogers, we can all address Mr. Dreyfuss directly.
Now, to WAMU F.M. and to all Web-site members here: Please accept my deepest apologies for my previous message, what with its abrupt ending! (That "Sssuu-h-rrre..." I'd i-n-t-e-n-d-e-d to finish t-h-u-s: "Sure hope that Pres. George W's U.S. Sec. of Education is happy with her devotion to standardized tests. Because---despite our former President's very admirable, praiseworthy motives [to say nothing of a new, U.S. Education Secretary]---her precious tests are still holy-writ!)
Because that message was my v-e-r-y first to WAMU FM, I ask these two favors on behalf of other newcomers (a-n-d other autistic members):
A. Do you WAMU staff have a-n-y method by which we "chatters" can erase, delete messages with un-intended mistakes?
B. A "li'l ticker," just below your "Message Box", s-u-r-e would help us avoid these mistakes. eBay has a "tiny ticker"; why can't a-l-l chat-sites?
And finally...to "Cane" himself: You, sir, wrote one of most correct, most timely opinions here. Cane, you TELL Mr. Dreyfuss! Plan to "Reply" to your v-e-r-y sound message... very soon. Meantime: THANK you--one & all!--for enduring this Appalachian hillbilly.
I have been a science teacher in NYC for several years and have been listening to this show for a few months now. I am extremely impressed with the content -but today took the cake! I finally felt compelled to write and share this podcast of Richard Dreyfuss with friends and family.
Finally! Someone with "access" who can take this very needed conversation about civics or the lack of civics (civility) to a national level.
I taught in the inner city to many black, hispanic and minority children. They have a need for a critical thinking environment as much as the next citizen or soon-to-be-citizen. The fact that I taught science to me is incidental to the notion that a teacher's job is to turn out an engaged, active and good citizen. I often used the science of the curriculum, or the day, to have students reflect on the politics, or good or not-so-good government -ethics- of the thing, which affects every aspect of life. It has been alarming how the educational system's push for standards and 'race to the top' neglected the philosophical 'why' of the race or push - something children and soon-to-be-adults need to have to achieve a meaningful life.
Americans, in recent years, seem to have been created to fit the mold of "worker bee," -no more, no less -NON- THINKING (a frightening '1984' model).
The model of civics behavior has taken a turn for the worst over many years -the once common access to information -television-has become a warehouse of reality shows and ranting news. The politicians are reflecting the same behaviors and children have no other model than what is presented in the present.
Therefore, the need for Richard Dreyfuss's Civics approach is long overdue. I applaud the Diane Rehm show for airing this refreshing viewpoint. Any inconsistencies about Dreyfuss' viewpoints are incidental to his main point. I look forward to more from his neck of the woods!
P.S. Incidentally, I am an immigrant, and of African descent.
Rhonda M, what an important perspective you raise. I humbly add that American leaders, wanting to avoid going to war again, disbelieving early reports of atrocities towards Jewish people, unready to help the numerous countries/peoples that the Nazis had already invaded, entered war following the Pearl Harbor, Hawaii attack by Japan, realizing the real threat to America of these growing forces. But, I totally agree with you about strong and wrongful contradictions throughout our American history, as well as presently. I embrace the rich contributions African Americans provided our national heritage; these need to be taught in history lessons. I love the loyal protection and support by Billy Lee, George Washington's most trusted, willing servant and friend - something I learned mostly from Newt Gingrich's newest novels & the History channel. In her history material, Carolyn Myss also urges us all to fall in love with America again; I believe there's a path available for all to do that.
Dreyfuss' desire to reform public school in 2010 when he himself has had no education in education is somewhat different from Edison's and Henry Ford's engineering accomplishments in the late 1800's/early 1900's (of course, if Richard Dreyfuss actually succeeds in promulgating a renewed focus on political discourse in public schools, I will be happily proved wrong). In point of fact, it is difficult to be taken seriously in the field of education reform (unless one simply wants to donate money in the vein of Zuckerberg), without some education in education.
What was really disappointing about this interview is how Diane Rehm, usually a very insightful interviewer, doesn't even question the nonsensical things he says, from his bizarre jaguar metaphor, to his ridiculous assertion that the American Revolutionary War was about "actualizing the idea that the ruler and the ruled were one thing" -- hello? the founding fathers were pretty much members of the nobility, and in 1784 heaven forbid you were a woman or an indentured servant, or, even worse, a slave, i.e. 3/5ths of a person, or when he talks about "13,000 years of politics" (what about the magna carta, I always thought that was kind of a highlight in the history of democracy) -- and is he really suggesting that mammoth-hunting and representative government co-existed?
This is a direct quote from Dreyfuss, and the point at which I had to turn the show off:
"There's a word in English that should be far more familiar to all of us and that word is 'exemplification'. You can't exemplify reason or logic or goals of virtue unless you exemplify them." -- I mean, I'm sorry, that's babble, and I just couldn't listen to it anymore.
A significant challenge in teaching today is that true thinking has been largely replaced by loud, passionate voices. And this has become not only accepted, but often lauded. Passion has replaced valuable and productive dialogue. No one is expected to think for themselves anymore…in fact not only does rhetoric discourage it, but technology does as well. I am a serial entrepreneur, business executive, investor and lecturer. I am an unapologetic capitalist who also happens to (like Mr. Dreyfuss explains in this interview) have been brought up with left of center views and I continue a sense of progressive activism today. Coincidentally, I also live just down the street from Mr. Dreyfuss. I teach a course to MBA students on business plan writing and optimal business strategy. I’ve observed that the current generation of students is being discouraged from true intellectual curiosity. As an educator that strongly encourages entrepreneurial thinking, the first page of my syllabus has become more of a disclaimer than a description of my teaching pedagogy. So many students today are looking for quick and easy ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answers. There is clearly a comfort and even incentive in a banal and innocuous ‘memorize and regurgitate’ methodology to ‘learning’.
I am currently finishing a book on some proposed solutions, and much of my research supports some of Mr. Dreyfuss commentary and thoughts and even offers some alternate perspective. I am in a position to support the implementation of Mr. Dreyfuss’ platform to teach his curriculum and would welcome a dialogue to do so.
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