Amy Chua: "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-01-12/amy-chua-battle-hymn-tiger-mother
Author Amy Chua and family
Courtesy Amy Chua and Penguin Press
The story of a mother who sets out to raise her children in the strict Chinese way she was brought up in hopes of preparing them for the future. Though her methods are intended to arm her daughters with skills, strong work habits and inner confidence, she also finds herself in a bitter clash of cultures and having to adapt to the needs of a different generation.
Guests
Amy Chua
author and law professor at Yale University
Comments
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This method is very similar to the way early Americans lived as well as the way they raise children.
The early days before Television, video games, and Radio, any time before the 1900's.
How ever I do not agree with the method of putting a child down for not doing their best, but rather for not trying.
To many kids today just don't care, and float through life with the acceptance of today's society as mediocrity is just fine, so as not to offend those who or to close the gap between higher achievers and drop outs.
An article about this woman and her book was sent out to our parenting listserv in Baltimore. A lot of emails flying back in forth. While many women commented that their Polish upbringings sounded familiar, it is seen as rather extreme in this day and age.
We have Chinese friends whose daughters study hard and are in AP courses, must do homework before anything else when they get home, but they have sleepovers, play dates, watch TV and play video games. Both are successful in spite of these activities.
My husband and I were recently married and have been sharing our childhood experience and made a pro and con list of our up bringing; The highlights are
- Me,from a single dad Thai English professor in Thailand whose motto is "Think Globally and Act Locally", basically be traditional with your manner and "Sciences is the only option in your career path."
- My husband, from a loving family, whose motta is " Deep Roots grow strong wings" and "do what you love"
We are still exploring what is OUR beliefs and how to raise our children...
can they be humble with their manners yet indepent in their pursuit and do what they love?
The approach described by your guest is absolutely wrong for me and my family.
I was raised by parents who wanted to know why when I got a 96%, why it wasn't higher... I could never attain what they demanded and my self esteem suffered. The achievement was never good enough
I believe that childhood should be play based. My boys play outside, learn by interacting with each other and friends. Over scheduling and high expectations so early in a child's life is exactly what I am consciously trying to avoid.
Let little kids play, frolic, and have fun. They learn so much from Nature and each other.
There is plenty of time for noses to the grind stone as kids age.
Bonnie
Cincinnati. OHIO
Wow,
How refreshing to feel as if how I am raising my daughter is not so foreign. I always tell my daughter "To be good at something it takes practice, practice and more practice".
I have a 16 year old and I do her best and the only way you can do you best is to put in 200% effort. This will require lots of sacrifice, hard work and dedication, but it'll serve her well in the future. She doesn't know that now, but she'll get it later in life.
Thank you Amy.
By the way, I'm a first generation Puerto Rican.
I would like to know whether Jewish-American is similar to Baptist-American, or possibly to Puritan-American?
In the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870411150457605971352869875...), the author wrote about her story under the title "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior", a quite different gist than portrayed in this show.
The book seems to me the result of a clash between more vertically-integrated and more horizontally-integrated cultures. Did the author just remind us of her parents exclaiming, "why need friends? Isn't your family good enough?"
Yup, that is the difference. In this society relationships beyond family matter, actually a lot.
As a professor at an Ivy League institution I come across many kids who had been raised in this fashion. I am often horrified by the way they seem programed towards pre med, pre law, and of course violin and piano as the author stated. I have had so many conversations with the student in tears, about their seething resentment towards their parents and frequently their profound depression over not being allowed to find their own interests. Every term I have conversations with students who recently discovered a love for a subject their parents would not allow them to pursue. I do not mean to criticize anyones parenting, I just mean that there can be serious long term repercussions.
As the eldest daughter in a family of six children, much of what the guest describes in her parenting methods resonates with me. My parents were very strict with myself and my second-born sister. From my perspective, love is often not enough to offset such expectations. I would be interested in hearing the opinion of the guest's daughters, and whether their perspective mirrors hers. In my experience, my view of how I was raised differs from that of my parents.
I like Amy's idea that we must practice something to become good at it and ultimately to enjoy it. When my step-son was 11 years old and could not ride a bike, I told him he was going to learn that day! He stated that he did not want to ride a bike... After a moment of thought, I said,"You don't know if you want to or not because you don't know how. Once you learn how you can decide it you want to ride or not." He learned to ride that day and he rode happily for many summer days after that.
Parenting is difficult but I feel that there are times that we get it right! I will always question if I am doing it right...too strict, not strict enough, pushing too hard or not hard enough...
Thank you for your wonderful show!
I applaud Amy Chua for her honesty and principles. In a day and age when our nation's educational standards seem to be lowering by the day, she reminds us that our children are meant to be guided by parents, not just left to their own devices. Most of us have had a mentor who challenged us to aim higher, and while it was tough at that time, we inevitably appreciated that person all the more for what they did for us.
Also, many of the critics I've heard in the past few days remark on the harsh tone that Amy Chua admits to have used with her kids. I would be surprised if "American" parents don't ever use such harsh words, if not worse, at moments of frustration.
Thanks for standing up to the criticism!
I am an immigrant and was a stricter mom than my children's friends' parents were. I was raised on the same philosophy -- you expect the best of your children and did not accept second place. I expected my children to be high achievers and they were.
I believe children can live up to high standards. The western standard/philosophy lets children to raise themselves and this can lead to confusion and loss of direction.
Of course, we all are ambivalent and waffle go back and forth, but ultimately, we must take responsibility for raising our children and the old country values have worked for generations and can still work.
My parents and the author's parents had similar parenting styles. Today I have an 11-year-old daughter diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety. While I find the "Chinese" parenting style valuable, I have learned to heavily rely upon and seek out a support system, i.e. teachers, counselor, to help bring out the best in my daughter, help her cope with her weaknesses and learn self awareness. I feel these support people are invaluable with reinforcing my parenting message and helping my daughter mature into a confident young lady. Thank you.
Mary, New Hampshire
I am half Korean and was raised primarily by my mother in America & in a Korean church. As I listened to the guest, I remembered my childhood as being very identical. Regarding the strong emphsis on education, I explain to others who don't understand the difference between asian & american cultures is that a failure as a child/student is felt as a failure for the family. Whenever I experienced a falure (anything less than an A in school), my mother would agonize (yes, very dramatic) over what she was going to tell her friends.
I'm 36 years old now, but one thing that I never understood was my mother's need for their children to play musical instruments (me and my sister played). I have a natural ability for art and it was not supported, but I took piano for almost 3 years (kicking and screaming the entire time). As I listen to the guest, who also stressed music in her home, I still have no answers to this question.
HONESTLY, I HEAR MYSELF ECHOED IN HER WORDS.I HAVE 5 KIDS.I ALWAYS TELL THEM THAT EVEN IF THEY DON'T LIKE TO DO THINGS SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO.TOO MANY PARENTS ARE AFRAID TO BE THE PARENT ANYMORE.WE LIMIT TV, VIDEO GAMES, ASSOCIATION.I HAVE HEARD HOW SOME CHILDREN SPEAK TO THIER PARENTS,THERE IS NO RESPECT.I ALWAYS TELL MY CHILDREN THAT THEY MUST LEARN FOLLOW THROUGH.IT'S OK TO MAKE MISTAKES THAT'S THE WAY WE LEARN.I TELL THEM NO MATTER WHAT THEY BECOME WILL BE OK W/ ME,THEY JUST CAN,T COME BACK TO ME AND SAY IT WAS MY FAULT BECAUSE I DIDN/,T TEACH THEM TO BE CAPABLE ADULTS.THEY CAN LIVE WITH ME FOREVER AS LONG AS IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT THEY HAVE TO.APPLAUSE TO HER FOR PARENTING IN A WORLD WHERE NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE THIER RESPONSIBILITY TO PARENT THIER CHILDREN SERIOUSLY.
I do not think Ms. Chua is representative of all Chinese mothers. Rather, she represents a blend of western socio-economic values and eastern cultural background.
From what I've seen in Taiwan, Hong Kong and mainland China, most Chinese, mothers included, seem to think tv is pretty great. And the higher the volume, the better. Like a segment of population here in the States, there are moms in China who also think tv makes a great babysitter and so the tube is on all day.
Ms. Chua neglects to mention the presence of cram schools in the life of many Asian teens. Obviously their Chinese mothers aren't quite cutting it the way Ms. Chua is and so their children attend cram schools after school and on weekends too. And despite all this effort not all these kids end up at elite universities.
Her article in the WSJ promotes some terrible Asian stereotypes, I couldn't help but wonder if it was meant to be a joke. -signed, Chinese born and raised.
I feel a little distressed by the conversation. I am a mother of 7 year old boy. Of course I want the best for him. However, I want him to have a balanced and happy life. Always winning or getting first place is not the ideal. Sometimes we can learn more from our mistakes. Also, how do you foster intrinsic motivation when you’re the person always pushing your child- don’t you want the child to push themselves?
I haven't read the book, but I can attest to the fact that each child needs a different type of discipline. Being shy and quiet, my childhood went through punishments that today would be called torture. It took me over 40 years to find myself and feel successful in my own right.
Please ask her about calling her daughter "garbage". And I think she is backtracking quite a bit from her position in the WSJ.
How much of the author's ideas about parenting comes from culture. Her parents were raised in a culture were intellect was punished were the playing of western instructions was punished.
I'm surprised over some backtracking done by Ms Chua
I'm an Immigrant, last of three kids. My mom pushed both my older sister and brother very hard, to achieve really great scores both in academia and in arts. I could slide through the cracks and slacked on music classes and in academic achievements. Not that I did too bad that I have a PhD in Molecular Biology. I still regret slacking on my music classes and am now taking music classes just to make-up for what I lost out on.
I am very excited about this book and I hope Amy Chua does write a "how to" manual. I worked in education for two years and I have seen, first hand, the detrimental effects of lax parenting. I do think that children nowadays feel entitled. The world does not reward you for participation or mediocre work. I hope to raise my children similarly. Thank you for this book.
I must add my comment. I am Australian, my husband was a military person. We have two, now grown ,dual citizen children. Both are highly successful young adults now living overseas, our son in China and our daughter in Australia. They were raised by me, a loving but firm "Tiger Mother" and their Father a very strong, loving Daddy. He taught me how to a better parent and we were a team.
We were labeled as overly intense parents at their school. It is true!
Our son is to be married this year to a chinese woman and we are very excited about their future family.
We enjoy the best of retationships with our children and I would say, they were not raised in the "American" way
I could go on ,
Sincerely, Catherine
As a North American born daughter of Chinese immigrant parents, I find this show fascinating. My parents did not drive us to excell to such extremes as the "tiger mothers". We had a much more open home about issues that can cause "loss of face" in a traditional Chinese household such as a "B"! Mom and Dad expected us to do our best but never without the pressure to be perfect. As a result, out of 5 kids - there are 2 phds, 2 masters, and an associate degree. Our academic accomplishments were never as important as harmony and peace with integrity of love in the family. To this day, we gather as a 3 generation family of 22 to travel the world even when we live in four different countries. We get together at least 2-4 times a year and hang out for holidays because we really not just love each other but truly like each other as friends inside a clan of over 270 people going back 5 generations. I appreciate my Chinese Mom's laxness with 'face' and down to earthness. I learnt how NOT to be a Tiger Mother from my own Chinese Mother with my own two children who are straight A students, high performing atheletes, and socially well balanced to care for others. I agree there are ways to excel without neurotic pressures that I see from many of my peers who are "Tiger Mothers".
Thanks for a fascinating conversation!
This interview will be very helpful to people that work with your children; who they date, their boss and their children. When I found out how my co workers, boss and subordinates were reared it helps me understand them much better and can help me make decisions on their work assignments. Having this interview and your book be able to be accessed 1, 5, 10 and 20 years from now will have the people who interact with your children better understand them... Example, would I assign a person to create a video game if they never played them as a kid?
2 comments
Some kids are self-driven, parents some times need to drag them down a little.
Amy's husband deserves half credit. A family always needs love balance. One parent can be tough and the other should be not-so-tough.
She though that his father will be disappointed for not getting a job?
I am sorry, but she is over 30 and still working towards her father approval?
Not sure if this is the kid I would like to have.
I am an American Taiwanese who grew up in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. I moved to the US about 8 years ago on my own to finish with my schooling leaving my Taiwanese mother and American father back in Kuala Lumpur.
As I listened and read bits on your book two very strong emotions came back to me and reminded me why I left when I was so young. The first was "Oh how painful for your children" and the second was "Yup this is very normal." My mother was extremelly strict on me and would shun a lot of my interests when I was growing up and until I reached 10th grade I was very obedient. I became rebellious at 10th grade when a family crisis occured and took advantage of the situation to be "Western" because I was so jealous. Looking back at my life now...though I am happy with where I am...I realise that what my mother planned for me was all in love because I could have been so much more than what I am. I have some regret for not following the path my mother laid out for me. But at the same time I also have many painful memories of my mother. We do not really get along. I think that some children have a more difficult time seeing past the negative "fatty" comments. I wasn't a fat child but a compliment was NEVER an option. So I heard "fatty" more than your beautiful. Including now that I am married. My mother still treats me like a typical "Joy Luck Club" mother. I made my husband watch Dim Sum Funeral and read all of Amy Tans books. The similarities and differences are uncanny. Best of luck to you.
I was actually envious of other kids with "normal" strict Chinese immigrant parents who expected a lot from them and put a lot of time in their life. My own Chinese immigrant parents did not care if I did well or not. No matter how great my achievements were in academia and in music, they were not impressed. If I do bad on anything they didn't care. To them, they never expected much for me and told me I could just be a garbage picker.
Part of this could be that my mother is a scientist and my father is a musician, neither of them is happy with their own success and basically threw it away. Thus they did not have any plans for me to achieve, but also they were too busy to care about my existence.
To be raised in an environment in which you are encouraged to make the most of your abilities, WHILE receiving unconditional love, sounds wonderful.