Shootings in Arizona
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-01-10/shootings-arizona
An update on the shooting rampage in Tuscon, Arizona on Saturday that claimed the lives of six people and injured at least 14 including Arizona Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, said to be the target of the attack.
Guests
Rep. Chris Van Hollen
Democrat of Maryland, Chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Congressman Michael Burgess
Republican,Texas, 26th District
Ron Elving
Washington editor for NPR.
Kate Zernike
national correspondent, The New York Times.
Jonathan Weisman
White House reporter for "The Wall Street Journal."
Rep. Raúl Grijalva
D-Arizona, 7th District
Comments
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I agree that Palin should say something like an apology about her posting...the main problem for me is the easy access to guns in this country and that our elected officials continue to cower before the NRA and its powerful gun lobby...this in combination with the lack of Mental health care and access to it is a very dangerous combination...
It is important that we all look first in the direction where we most bear responsibility and can most change: ourselves. Any speech or actions which dehumanize fellow citizens increases the chance of violence. The Nazi's tattooed numbers on the arms of Jewish prisoners and never again referred to them by their name. Thus dehumanized, atrocities against these "numbers" were more easy to rationalize. Irresponsible and mentally disturbed individuals like the shooter find it more easy to rationalize their insane actions if against "non-humans."
Our discourse must intentionally emphasize the humanity and positive qualities of our opponents in order to recognize that opponents are not "enemies."
What bothers me most is the huge amount of misinformation out there that passes for “news”. Any point of view, no matter how radical, can be encouraged, if one cherry picks one’s sources. There is very little real and honest debate that goes on in large public format in this country.
There are RIGHT answers to the major issues that confront us, but with all the distortion that occurs America collectively hobbles along half-blind- the big picture is lost in the rabble. Anyone with any courage can look with 20/20 hindsight to see what policies worked in the past, and use this to guide us forward. (for example -Want jobs? want deficit reduction? Look at the past to determine the types of policies in place in “better” times- don’t reinvent the wheel). Unfortunately in the land of sound bites, very little thinking seems to occur, except perhaps that of unchecked greedy self-interest. Obama is left to act like a parent to try and pacify disobedient children (Dem and Rep parties) to try and accomplish anything.
One thing I believe would help pacify some of the hateful debate is if the word liberal was stricken from English language. To some, liberals represent drug influenced, soldier hating, baby killing, city dwellers of questionable sexual orientation. Dems would do well to point out that without progressives, women wouldn’t vote, mininum wage would be $2.50 an hour, recently millions of auto-related jobs would have been lost, there would be no Social Security or Medicare, slave ownership would be alive and well, and we'd still be a colony of Great Britain. Progressive means PROGRESS. This country cannot afford to be stagnant. This country must progress or we will be left behind, to go through the long drawn out process of following in footsteps of the Romans.
I shop at the Safeway where the shootings occurred on Saturday. Fortunately, we were not there at that moment in time. My child's innocence is now lost!
I want to know if anyone is pursuing the electronic web site trail that this crazy kid had been following? Did he ever log on to Palin's web page or any other that espoused hate?
I also want to know why anyone would need an assault rifle or hand gun to kill dears? Even the police force here in Arizona, think that they should be outlawed...
My husband and I plan to move away from Tucson, Arizona, USA asap to either Canada, or Australia, because we have had it with the right wing red neck attitude here in Arizona, just like the gentleman from Texas said.
I dropped off my daughter at school this am, and the driver in front of me's pick up truck had a bumper sticker that read:
God, Guns & Religion......
Betty Arond,
Tucson, AZ
I am a long time fan of your program. Diane, you are one of the best interviewers I have ever heard, but today was the first time I have been disappointed. We have had assassains since time began, and we have had politicians for as long. Those who shot the Kennedys, and the Pope, and Ronald Reagan, and Martin Luther King, and a multitude of others were concerned that their particular viewpoints weren't being honored, or they weren't receiving enough attention, or they thought they were the only ones who were right. The sick mind of the man who shot these 15 people is no different. And yet, you chose to ignore the moment of silence in Washington D.C. to pray or reflect in order to try to link this shooting to attitudes in Congress. Sometimes we need to stop talking and take a moment to quiet our hearts. I'm sorry for that oversight.
Media equates liberal voices with hi-profile, highly paid fomenters of fear, hate, & anti-govt hysterics - wow! Is there any hope?
And the elected officials who benefit politically from this nonsense, stay mute, even encourage it. They need to "man up" as Sarah says and denounce those who use rhetoric with such violent undertones.
In the meantime, the nation has over 15 million unemployed, nearly 59 million uninsured, and over 40 million living in poverty....and it seems most Americans are mad at the wrong people because of the trash talk.
I am curious why there is so little talk about our (the american people's) responsibility for interpreting this "vitriol". Have we become so dependent on the opinions of the media that we can't sort through the inflammatory information they offer? What happened to critical thinking skills in this country? Palin, Limbaugh, O'Reiley... They are only as powerful and influential as we let them be. One more compelling reason to support and fund progressive education.
A Better Way for Political Discourse
Good citizenship depends on individuals polishing their point of view so it can be understood and respected by others. Providing the tools for developing personal points of view and providing a better demographic method of visibility for the argument is my suggestion to democratize the political debate.
Many seem to think the political argument revolves around the Republican or the Democratic party. The fault nor the solution is with the two party system. The solution resides in the pragmatic and generous spirit of a populace armed with the tools and the media to reflect their point of view in a respectful and intelligent light.
The problem is not our governance, it is that the vast majority of the citizens don't know how to play the game. Ideologies serving a minuscule point of view have figured out how to pool their resources to gain favor in the system. There is no single ideology representative of the populace. Until the whole starts intelligently collaborating towards a common good expect to continue interpreting the system as irrational. Internet technology can alter this irrational exuberance of power.
I have a theory. The best argument of an average individual is better than the average argument of the best op-ed journalist. Though the merit of these political blogs would debunk this theory, I claim the participants are not coming close to their potential.
Read in entirety on the The Do Good Gauge website.
One of the commentators in your last hour this morning said that no one in the media on either side had said anything about taking responsibilty for inciteful rhetoric, he is wrong. Saturday night Keith Olberman made a special comment apologizing for any comment he 'may have made' that would have incited violence.
Since MSNBC is often pointed out as the same high level of partisan rhetoric as Fox News, this is not true. Both Olberman and Maddow often mock remarks made by others, Maddow especially uses actual video, audio or written remarks as examples.
In addition, I am extremely tired of remarks made that 'both sides' are guilty of this hyper-speech. When actually, I have never seen a photo of any sign at any Dem event showing a presdent demeaned as is typical at Tea Party and GOP events, nor have I ever been to an event where AK-47s were seen slung over anyone's shoulder, as well as visible guns. THAT is the difference. Obama has never said he would take away either guns nor ammunition, only that there do need to be strictor laws for sem-automatic guns and the Saturday nite special. This past Saturday would indicate that this mght be a good idea.
everyone , needs to stop using one mental patient's criminal acts as justification for their individual agendas
this goes for gun sights ads , gun control issues or national health care as a cure all.
anyone who has dealt with the mentally ill in this country knows that the mentally ill hear what comes from their own mind and nothing more.
the rhetoric of the press, including your show, is nothing more than the modern version of "waving the bloody shirt"
It is ironic that the subject of health care and mental illness is not being addressed when Mr Loughner, who could buy a weapon despite his probable mental illness, wanted to kill a woman working to make health care more available for those like Mr Loughner who desperately need it.
Those doubting whether their words and symbols that contribute to a climate of hate can inspire some to acts of violence should become more familiar with history. Nazi use of indoctrination material that was seen as "entertainment" made it possible for even "civilized" and presumably sane German officers and soldiers to commit horrible atrocities. See Omer Bartov's "The Eastern Front, 1941-45, German Troops and the Barbarisation of Warfare".
please check this out and decide for yourself!
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-...
you're good at taking words out of context. why don't you check out this link.
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-...
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson
Question:
If this was Rush Limbaugh's or Sarah Pallin's quote from last week, can I assume it would have been their fault that this shooting occurred?
I believe it is fine to comment on a topic before it has aired, especially if you have a question or already have something to offer on the topic.
I don't claim to be as well-read on Thomas Jefferson as I would like to be, but my understanding is that Jefferson was quite the heavy drinker in his later years, while in great financial distress. TJ approved of the guillotine weilding French revolution, the attrocities of which would make the Taliban look meek. I don't think it is wise for Americans to take EVERYTHING TJ ever wrote as gospel as they seem to like to.
Rush and Sarah offer outlout to those whose minds are already closed and are the antithesis of civil conversation in which FACTS have any relevance.
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.
BetsyL wrote:
Can your guests cite any instances of members of the Democratic party using militaristic language?
(and variations of the same sentiment; that is, that the left never uses violent, vitriolic language, images etc.)
Well you could begin with President Obama. “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/obama-we-bring-a-gun/
For a catalog of hatred on the left look here:
http://tinyurl.com/2aucavx
The comments here made me think of this imagined dialogue:
Lefty: Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement encourage hatred and violence!
Questioner: How do you know?
Lefty: Because whenever I think about them, I’m filled with hate and a desire to do harm!
Any point of view, no matter how radical, can be encouraged if one cherry picks one’s sources. There is little real and honest debate that goes on in large public format in this country.
There are RIGHT answers to major issues that confront us, but with all the distortion that occurs, America collectively hobbles along half-blind- the big picture lost in the rabble. Anyone with any courage can look with 20/20 hindsight to see what policies worked in past, and use to guide us forward. (for example -Want jobs? want deficit reduction? Set political affiliation aside and examine past to determine policies in place in “better” times- don’t reinvent the wheel). Unfortunately in the land of sound bites, very little thinking seems to occur. Obama is left to act like a parent to try and pacify disobedient children (Dems and Reps) to accomplish anything.
One thing that would help pacify some hateful debate is if word liberal was stricken from English language. To some, liberals represent drug influenced, soldier hating, baby killing, city dwellers of questionable sexual orientation. Dems would do well to point out that without progressives, women wouldn’t vote, mininum wage would be $2.50 an hour, recently millions of auto-related jobs would have been lost, there wouldn't be Social Security or Medicare, slave ownership would be alive and well, and we'd remain a colony of Great Britain. Most economists seem to agree that recent progressive policies likely staved off 2nd Great Depression (although if it had occurred after 8 years of W, I'm sure Dems would still somehow be blamed). We went to war against terrorists in Iraq, when at the time there were none. Progressive means PROGRESS. We can't afford to be stagnant. Country must progress or we will be left behind, to repeat long drawn out process of following footsteps of the Romans.
Sorry if my comment concerning Palin and Rush offended anyone- I certainly don't wish to promote more hate.
Diane,
I am unable to listen to your show tomorrow as I will be working with the mentally ill in southern AZ. I would like to point out that over the last year money for care of the mentally ill has been cut back and continues to be cut, especially the medication money. Clients are no longer allowed meds that are not generic. Clients who were doing well on meds are doing worse now because they can no longer have the meds that worked for them im the past because of cost. Please try to address this tomorrow.
Thank you
Sandra RN/MS
Steve Almond pointed out in his article "Surely Some Revelation is at Hand" that "Giffords’ opponent in the last election, a veteran of the invasion of Iraq, put it like this:
Get on Target for Victory in November
Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office
Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly"
Why was this not discussed when political rhetoric was on the table? What does everyone want to talk about Sarah Palin's crosshairs, when there is other rhetoric that is much more violent and much more localized?
Given the fact that many guests on shows like this make incorrect statements, usually out of ignorance but sometimes to purposely spread disinformation, maybe you should consider an "errata" period at the end of each show or at least on the site here.
Small example: one of the guests on this episode stated that no media figures had apologized for their violent or otherwise extreme rhetoric in the wake of the shooting.
In fact Keith Olbermann quickly broadcast a combined apology and call for civility almost immediately.
As usual the misbehavior of the right is conveniently blurred across the spectrum by pundits desiring to appear more beatifically objective.
I am a resident of Chandler, Arizona. Just before Saturday's tragic event I commented to my husband that I am growing increasingly anxious because there have been an alarming rate of shootings in Arizona lately--not the least of which was a high profile shooting at a Chandler mall last week. (This mall happens to be two miles from my house, and I had shopped there the day before the shooting.)
My personal view is that shootings here are on the rise due to the concealed weapons law that AZ has recently passed. I disagree with one of your speaker's assessments that AZ is a safer place than most other states.
What's more, I have lived in other countries (Ghana, France, England, and others), and I have never felt more concerned about gun violence than I currently do living here in AZ. Could your speakers address the impact of gun control laws as relates to homicides in other countries vs. the US?
J.J. Hickson’s sneakers have been one of the few bright spots for the Cleveland Cavaliers this season. He first caught our eye with the tonal-yellow colorway of the Nike Zoom Sharkley,Supra Skytops, and then with a sweet PE/iD colorway of the Nike Hyperdunk 2010, which featured the Cleveland wine red on the upper and a yellow midsole. During yesterday’s game against the Los Angeles Lakers, J.J. Hickson wore the Nike Air 1/2 Cent Cranberry – a perfect match for the Cleveland uniforms. Hickson’s sneaker selection was about the only thing going for Cleveland last night, as the Lakers doubled Cleveland’s scoring output in a game that was sealed by halftime. In any case, check out Hickson’s kicks after the jump and let us know what you think. via ESPN.
The incident in Tuscon is heartbreaking, and it is a shame that it occured. However saying that if wouldn't have been able to procure the Glock 19 and the extended capacity magazine that he used, the incident would not have occured or would not have left as many dead and wounded is false. This man was sick and would have used whatever means available to commit this horrible crime. A vehicle crashed into the scene would have done more damage and would have been more readily available.
From his writings and videos now emerging, it appears the shooter was dramatically more left than right. That fact makes many of the points made here less than relevant. However, the concept of not using rhetoric to incite violence is still a good one.
Hideo Nomo wasn’t the first Japanese-born player to reach the Major Leagues,CHI Flat Iron, but his 1995 MLB debut is widely recognized as a watershed moment for Asian baseballers. Nomomania hit Los Angeles hard when Hideo led the NL in strikeouts that ‘rookie’ year, and soon after the Swoosh caught the fever and released the Nike Air Max NM Nomo. This Varsity Red colorway imagines an alternate history where Nomo came in on the opposite coast, with the OG Pro Blue joints also slated to drop later this spring. Click the jump below to get a look at the only trainer crazy enough to match Nomo’s trademark Tornado windup and look for these to hit select retailers on February 12th. via Eastbay
Style: 432031-600
Color: Varsity Red/Black-White-Varsity Maize
We’ve already had a few looks at Kobe’s 2011 All-Star shoe, but with this year’s All-Star Weekend festivities taking place in the Black Mamba’s hometown, it appears that Nike will be dropping a special Kobe pack to celebrate the glitz and glamour of LA. Here we get our first view of a new Zoom Kobe VI that will be part of the aforementioned pack, expected to hit retail around All-Star Weekend. This crazy new version of the ZK6 is an obvious nod to the movie biz leg of the LA landscape,Foamposite Copper, and what’s more Hollywood right now than 3-D? The shoe features a clever design created to appear as if you’re viewing the shoe without your 3-D glasses on, providing a cool out-of-focus look with staggered red and blue scale dots and alternating Swoosh, tongue logo and heel cap coloring as an added touch of 3-D flavor. The cherry on top comes by way of the 3-D glasses graphic that appears inside the tongue to bring the whole concept together. Keep reading for more pics and stay tuned for more on the Zoom Kobe VI ’3-D’ and the rest of the Kobe All-Star Pack coming soon. viamarqueesole.
->>> "(Arizona Governor) Jan Brewer's career shaped by son's mental illness" 14_09-2010:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/09/14/2... :
"In her nearly three decades of public service, there has been almost no mention in the media, or in the political arena, of her son Ronald's struggles.
"One of her first acts in office was restoring tens of millions in funding for behavioral-health services. Then last year, at the request of the courts, she proposed a sweeping overhaul of Arizona's mental-health system that would have given AHCCCS responsibility for tens of thousands of new patients while creating a pilot program to aid those with serious mental illness...
The proposal was heard by the Legislature but ultimately went nowhere...
->>> "Arizona lawmakers back governor on Medicaid waiver", 20_01-2011:
http://www.salon.com/wires/business/2011/01/20/D9KSDE5O0_us_medicaid_wai... :
"The Arizona Legislature on Thursday authorized Republican Gov. Jan Brewer to seek a federal waiver allowing the cash-short state to temporarily remove nearly 300,000 people from its Medicaid rolls in the first such request by a state... Brewer wants to suspend the eligibility of 280,000 low-income adults, which would... save $541.5 million.."
->>> "States’ Budget Crises Cut Deeply Into Financing for Mental Health Programs", 20_01-2011:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/us/21mental.html :
"Unlike many of her fellow governors, Jan Brewer of Arizona knows well the inner workings of her state’s mental health system: her son has schizophrenia... After what happened in Tucson, we need to realize that we need these programs,' said Linda Lopez, a Democratic state senator in Arizona who works in community outreach at a Tucson mental health facility.
CONTINUED
PART 2:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/us/21mental.html :
"... last year, (Arizona's mental health) programs began to shrink.
"The state cut counseling, case management, voluntary hospitalization, brand-name medication and numerous other services for non-Medicaid (mental health) patients...
"... 'I've been close to her for years, and she has been a help,' said Charles L. Arnold, a mental health lawyer in Phoenix who once sued the state to force it to provide better services.
"'But she's thrown the human service community under the bus...'"
->>> "Tucson shooting draws attention to Arizona's mental health laws, funding", 20_01-2011:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/20/AR201101...
"... even as legislators prepare bills on the state's mental health system, Arizona... finds itself in a massive budget crisis... the budget problems could result in drastic cuts to existing programs helping the mentally ill... "
->>> "Arizona budget: Mentally ill may lose health benefits", 15_01-2011:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/15/20110115arizona-budget... :
"An estimated 5,200 people diagnosed with a serious mental illness and thousands more who qualify for other behavioral-health services would be among 280,000 childless adults losing health-care coverage under the governor's plan.
"They would lose coverage for all other medical care, including prescription drugs for physical ailments, as well as case management, transportation and housing they receive through the state's behavioral-health-care program..."
CONTINUED
PART 3:
->>> "Medicaid Funding Key in Mental Health Services During Recession", 11_01-2011:
http://www2.nationaljournal.com/member/daily/medicaid-funding-key-in-men... :
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer announced budget cuts in 2010 that significantly reduced mental health services in the state...
"(Arizona) passed a statute decades ago ensuring the state would provide community-based treatment for the mentally ill.
"But according to Charles Arnold, a Phoenix lawyer, the state has never provided the funds necessary to carry out the letter of the law...
"Arnold filed suit against the state in 1981, alleging the administration did not fulfill what the law required.
"After nearly 30 years of litigation that has reached the Arizona Supreme Court, Brewer reached a temporary agreement with litigants to delay the case due to the recession...
"'There’s a lot of attention on the transplant issue here, because it’s so visible and obvious,' said Arnold of the shooting suspect, Jared Lee Loughner, and Pima Community College’s decision to remove him from classes. 'But there’s an equal failure here to fund public health.'
"'Under the cover of the fiscal crisis, folks here in power sought to essentially emasculate our human services system,' said Arnold..."
"->>> Mental health in Arizona: A case study", 19_01-2011:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/19/nation/la-na-arizona-mental-heal... :
"... in 2010, Brewer agreed to cut in half state funding for the Department of Health Services, reducing services to about 14,000 mentally ill Arizonans..."
CONTINUED
Roderick V. Louis
Vancouver, BC, Canada