Shootings in Arizona
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-01-10/shootings-arizona
An update on the shooting rampage in Tuscon, Arizona on Saturday that claimed the lives of six people and injured at least 14 including Arizona Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, said to be the target of the attack.
Guests
Rep. Chris Van Hollen
Democrat of Maryland, Chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Congressman Michael Burgess
Republican,Texas, 26th District
Ron Elving
Washington editor for NPR.
Kate Zernike
national correspondent, The New York Times.
Jonathan Weisman
White House reporter for "The Wall Street Journal."
Rep. Raúl Grijalva
D-Arizona, 7th District

Comments
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Jared Loughner not receiving care for his evident severe, worsening mental illness- was this a crime??
Jared Loughner plainly was a person suffering from worsening and apparently untreated schizophrenia...
If the U.S. had a more equitable health system, Mr Loughner's medical needs would have been attended to- proactively- by state-funded mental health services before he acted on his delusional thinking...
Being psychotic or mentally ill is not a crime in civilized, secular* nations...
But when someone who is psychotic/suffering from a worsening mental illness- and who has been perceived as exhibiting violent psychotic, delusional thinking/ dangerously mentally ill by many other non-mentally ill persons- acts out in ways that cause severe loss to society:
who are the criminals- those that did not make sure that state funding was approved to provide community monitoring, support and treatment services for the severely mentally ill or the severely mentally ill person who acts out as a consequence of not receiving support/care???
_____________________
Mr. Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, B.C. Canada
* IE: non Islamic countries...
Was this a political statement; in which a tragedy ended with the killing of six innocent people who views were given to them by the way they were brought up the way they see the world hoping to bring some relief to people who are in need. This young man has not been living long enough to understand the meaning of hardship losing a home a job the things you have worked for and lost. It will be interesting to hear why he came to the conclusion that this was the only way he could represent himself.
Signed Dennis Metcalfe
I think it is incorrect to see this incident as a political statement. This young man is obviously severely mentally ill. Apparently he was asked to leave his school because of his behavior, seen to be odd by students and faculty alike. Why did they not steer this young man toward getting help for his mental illness? Did they try to talk to his parents? Were his parents even aware that he was ill? Who, indeed, should share the blame for ignoring this young man's illness and his subsequent behavior? When will this nation face mental illness squarely in the face and act responsibly in addressing it? How many times do incidents like this, the one at Virginia Tech etc. have to happen before our nation becomes educated about how to address mental illness?
That said, I do believe that those who incite hate and violence can certainly have an effect on the mentally ill. Those who are the most prominent media stars should know they are speaking to people like the young man who may follow their exhortations toward violence. I hope they will all picture the beautiful face of that 9-year-old girl next time they spew hatred.
While apparently the shooting was more related to the shooter's mental illness than to politics alone, I believe it still serves as a warning to all of us concerning the inflammatory, take-no-prisoners rhetoric in which all sides have indulged in recent years.
I will not cry a plaintive "Why can't we all just get along?" because that is not realistic. Or even desirable. Each of us have the right to state our opinions and should exercise it.
I will, however, ask all of us to exercise that right with respect.
Wow! I'm impressed. The show hasn't even aired yet and people are already able to comment on it.
Did I mis-hear, or did the Congressmen from Texas say in his opening comments that most of the vitriol is from the Left?!
Jerry Rubin once said that violence is as American as apple pie. This seems especially on point right now. As a culture we celebrate, even glorify, violence in television, in movies, in sport, in video games, in our choice of metaphors in daily speech. We need to look to ourselves for the roots of this tragedy.
This is the point, plain and simple...it is the irresponsible rhetoric that has become mainstream, and thus normalizes the thinking of those whose thinking is outside of the mainstream. As one of your guests just stated...the language may be rhetorical, but those who are incapable of distinguishing the rhetoric with fact are now emboldened to act...aided by the easy in which weapons can be accessed ...resulting in Saturday's horrific tragedies.
Talk about evasion (and self-centeredness)! Apparently Congressman Burgess thinks this is all about himself. "I never cut off a microphone . . . . I never called anyone a liar . . . ."
Maybe not, but I recall his colleague (Joe Wilson) calling the President a liar (falsely, I might add). I recall Palin's 'target map', her "lock and load" speech, the prattle about "Second Amendment rights", and the constant threat that unless they got their way some people called for using bullets instead of ballots.
Left-wing, right-wing, there is no question the nature of political discourse has become dangerously vitriolic. I wonder how our Republi-Con friends would react if we liberals began saying we should "target conservatives"? Remember "Second Amendment Rights" belong to all members of the political spectrum!
Turn down the volume before we end up with a Second Civil War!
Can your guests cite any instances of members of the Democratic party using militaristic language? Your guest mentioned that each party accuses the other, but I am not aware of Democrats describing themselves as "cocked and loaded" for example.
I am disappointed in Congress Burgess' lack of responsibility for the vitriol in political speech. Clearly, he doesn't have to be "guilty" of hate speech to condemn it and to work to minimize it. I would like all of our representatives to "grow up." Instead of saying, "It's not my fault," I would like my representatives to say, "Debate is important and sometimes it has a hard cutting edge, but we need to model appropriate behavior for our constituents." I would love to hear that but I seriously doubt it will happen. Too much emphasis has been placed on winning an election than on leading a country.
Diane, thanks for pressing the Congressman on whether his speaking behavior will change.
Please also apply this same focus to the media's role in such events, a much neglected analysis. Like the Congressman, the media always points the finger outward, to other parties.
The media is driven by profit, like any other business. This creates a bias for ad revenues, which creates a bias for building audience, which creates a bias for drama.
That is, the media plays a central role in these violent events by always focusing on and amplifying anything dramatic, thus the most extreme voices dominate the microphone.
If it bleeds, it leads. It's not just a cliche, it's a real world business model, your business model.
We need the media to cover how politicians contribute to this violence.
We also need somebody to bravely and honestly covering the media's role.
Please be that show.
Our elected leaders must now understand how vital it is for them to lead by example. After a particularly mean campaign season with scandalous ads, and libelous claims that appeared to be designed by 7th grade bullies, the politicians have to demonstrate restraint and tolerance. They have to control the messages delivered by their PACs, and restore dignity to the idea of public service.
Diane,
Please ask your guests to comment on how the media handle discourse, not just how the politicians talk to each other. It is the media who carry the news who "hype" commentary and comments and raise the level of the vitriol and emotion in this country, in the interest of attracting additional viewers and listeners. Please comment on this important issue from this point of view.
LOVE your program!
Thank you for being there.
Linda Stephan (steffan)
Birmingham, Alabama
Other than the expected "not me" coming out of those who are knee deep in this vitriol, I find the Texas Congressman's use of the word "healthcare", when refering to what has forever been the conservative buzzword "Obamacare" telling. Though the congressman backpedal's the issue, he is obviously aware of the inciteful nature of such a term. The GOP lost it's way during the flight of Dixiecrats to the Republican Party. Lee Atwater's abuse of the system, stretching the truth politically - forever changed the tone of what is acceptable. He later asked forgiveness for his political sins, but the damage lingers on.
Jeff
North Carolina
I feel like we've all slipped through the Looking Glass. Why has almost NO ONE talked about the issue of GUNS in our society??? Here in New Hampshire I'm appalled to say that our new Republican state legislature has voted to ALLOW guns to be carried concealed into the State House!! This is utter madness and a symptom of the national madness.
I feel like we've all slipped through the Looking Glass. Why has almost NO ONE talked about the issue of GUNS in our society??? Here in New Hampshire I'm appalled to say that our new Republican state legislature has voted to ALLOW guns to be carried concealed into the State House!! This is utter madness and a symptom of the national madness.
What about the "2nd amendment remedies" comment by Sharron Angle during last year's senatorial race in Nevada? Isn't this a perfect example of suggestive language in this context?
Diane,
I would also like to hear your guests comment about the level of education in this country when "sound bites" become "news," rather than having a thoughtful, logical discussion about issues. Commercialism rules; education loses; so do all of us.
Thank you again.
Linda Stephan
Diane:
Re: the impact of politics on this shooting
We must recognize that there are millions of people with schizo personality in our nation. If these people are in angry situations they view these in the extreme. They might kill their family members, shoot up schools and kill political figures.
Put them in a quiet forest of a society of goodness and kindness, their aggressive impulses are reduced.
So the entire environment of our system has to change. We must debate with visible respect and kindness toward our opponents. It's a huge step, but the alternatives are what happened Saturday.
Harry E. Heller, Ph.D
I think that the headlines that are blaming this killing spree on hostile, hateful speech from both sides are missing the point. More than that, I believe they are a deliberate distraction. They are part of a Republican ploy to escape responsibility as fast as possible.
I don't think I have EVER heard a Democratic politician encourage violence against an opponent. In contrast, Sarah Palin's Facebook page still had her rifle cross hairs image, that targeted Democrats, displayed on the web even after the Tucson attack. The Republicans, with no apologies, have helped to create, and have absorbed the gun-toting Tea Party movement, with all its vandalism and threats against political opponents.
The headlines in yesterday's New York Times, instead of reading "Bloodshed Puts New Focus on Vitriol in Politics", should read, in my book, "McCain's Legacy".
Diane you asked a good question. Lets confine political speech to intelligent conversation. We do not need to stir up hate and lies. Otherwise we can expect violence to follow.
In regards to the debate of whether violent political tone and metaphors can be a contributor to actions such as we saw in Arizona, I just want to point out that there is much concern with violent imagery in cartoons and video games and their affect on children and young adults. If we are concerned about that why should we not also be concerned about that same from our political leaders?
What about Speaker Boehner's comment about Steve Driehaus that he would be a deadman if he voted for Health Care Reform. As reported by the Rolling Stone (see below) Boehner never apologized when confronted.
Shouldn't the press ask the Speaker about this? Shouldn't we expect Boehner to lead by example?
From:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-the-crying-shame-o...
Another Ohio Democrat, Steve Driehaus, clashed repeatedly with Boehner before losing his seat in the midterm elections. After Boehner suggested that by voting for Obamacare, Driehaus "may be a dead man" and "can't go home to the west side of Cincinnati" because "the Catholics will run him out of town," Driehaus began receiving death threats, and a right-wing website published directions to his house. Driehaus says he approached Boehner on the floor and confronted him.
"I didn't think it was funny at all," Driehaus says. "I've got three little kids and a wife. I said to him, 'John, this is bullshit, and way out of bounds. For you to say something like that is wildly irresponsible.'"
Driehaus is quick to point out that he doesn't think Boehner meant to urge anyone to violence. "But it's not about what he intended — it's about how the least rational person in my district takes it. We run into some crazy people in this line of work." (emphasis mine)
Driehaus says Boehner was "taken aback" when confronted on the floor, but never actually said he was sorry: "He said something along the lines of, 'You know that's not what I meant.' But he didn't apologize."
Shouldn't this killer be called a terrorist? I don't know how could anyone make the case otherwise. I guess that it is again reserved for Muslims ONLY... unless he didn't terrorize innocent people and killed six others.
Please ask your guests about the retraction of the map targeting Democratic politicians in gun sights on Sarah Palin's website.
There was a documentary program last year that was run, I think on CNN or PBS and one of the things that was pointed out is that Congressmembers now spend far less time together than they did in the past; fewer bring their families to D.C. and they return home more often. As one former Congressman said, it’s hard to stab someone in the back when your sons are friends. ( I am paraphrasing, of course.) It seems to me that one solution would clearly be for Representatives and Senators to meet each others’ families and socialize more. There ought to be cookouts and picnics and many different opportunities for our elected representatives to get to know each other. It will also decrease misunderstanding a great deal because they will know what is valued by other members.
I think a huge issue regarding the shootings in Arizona is mental health reform. This young man was severely mentally ill going by police reports and his own posts. People around him recognized this but there were no avenues to admit him to a facility, and keep him safe from himself and others for any length of time. Our country needs more and better mental health facilities. Some people, sadly, cannot function safely out among the rest of us and we owe it to them and to everyone to fund public institutions where they will receive the treatment, care and mercy they deserve.
Without minimizing the possible influences of mental illness, political discourse or media influence in this case, two incontrovertible facts remain: We are a society that tolerates a high level of violence, and anybody who wants to obtain a gun for use in an act of violence can do so. If we accept these two conditions as unchangeable, I feel that we will see the same conditions that prevail in less stable countries, where government officials and those with money or power will employ security services to protect themselves and their families, and those of us without means will live in fear of targeted or random acts of violence.
The media makes the fringe the loudest voice, this is where most of the problems come from. It does not help that our own representatives egg on bad behaviour. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/21/AR201003...