Brent Landau: "Revelation of the Magi"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-12-20/brent-landau-revelation-magi
Three kings or wise men are an integral part of today’s Christmas nativity scenes, plays and songs. In the most popular story, the magi travel from the east, led by the star of Bethlehem, to bring precious gifts to the newborn baby Jesus. But biblical texts tell us very little about these mysterious visitors – only a few verses in the Gospel of Matthew. New insights into who they were, where they came from and the purpose of their visit has been found in an Syriac version of the story. An expert in ancient biblical languages and literature found the manuscript forgotten in the vaults of the Vatican library. He tells us what it reveals about early Christian beliefs.
Guests
Brent Landau
in studio
Comments
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Diane:
Your producers are scraping the bottom for guest.
This writer has no hard facts, only vivid imagination.
Please have more respect for your listeners.
Very interesting discussion. I have a question for your author. When visiting the Cologne Cathedral several years ago I saw a golden cask prominently displayed which is said to be the resting place of the Magi. What do you know about this legend, and where did it begin?
If you feel there is a possibility that the Magi came from China, then the meaning "Those who pray in silence" could easily refer to the meditation techniques practiced by Buddhists or even Hindus.
What do you feel was/is the purpose of the Magi
I want to ask your guest the following question:
As a scholar has he looked into the texts of other religions regarding the birth of Jesus ? The text I am particularly talking about is the Koran which has a portion dedicated to Mary.
Since you indicate that the magi may apparently have come from a secluded part of China, do you think it possible that the magi may have been from Tibet? Perhaps they were Buddhist lamas, on a quest for the next Dalai Lama or Karmapa? Certainly other elements of the story are consistent with this possibility.
What significence is there in the three gifts brought by wise men?
Bill Longman, Watertown, MA
I don't hear any perspective on the actual culture of the day and the reality that Jesus was born into a Jewish family, Jewish religion and Jewish culture, not Christian. Christianity did not even exist then, and not for something like 200 years.
What is the timeline of Jesus' birth: birth, circumcision, presentation in the Temple, flight to Egypt and return to Nazareth. The slaughter of the children by Herod is not verified, is that correct?
Diane,
A question for your guest: Could the role of the magi be described as "proto-apophatic?" Is there any influence by this text or othersi on Platonic Christian philosophers?
I just want to express my appreciation for your guest's democratic and thought-out answers to the very sensitive questions posed by callers. Religion is a very delicate subject and a discussion involving religion can easily get out of hand and start to offend.
The "star" was spaceship carrying higher beings (ie/angels) from other dimensions.
I disagree and thought the discussion was entertaining and as factual as "something that cannot be proven" can be!
I've been researching Persia & fertile crescent for a book, taking place in 400BCE. The Zoroastrian religion was taken over by many other cultures, their scriptures destroyed first by Alexander in 333BC. So not much is left. But what I have found is that the Magi were not part of the Religion of Zorastrianism. They were mystics, who hung around Persia whose territory was immense, including bordering China & India. This mystical path, which is passed through oral initiatic tradition, still exists in the Sufis, the Kabalists, Tibetian Buddhism, yogic traditions and some I don't know about. I suggest that the Magi were infact mystics, who scholars say actually migrated from the east of Persia. Some scholars of the day reported that the comparatively powerful Kings of Persia allowed these mystics access to his person and whose advise was taken very seriously. This wave of mysticism, that is simply a deep universal understanding, is not an organized conspiracy, but rather an organic passing of knowledge. That 's who I think these guys were.
Congratulations once again Diane for another truly fascinating show! Especially because of the season we are in. I intend to purchase this book as soon as possible. People should remember that this does not take anything away from the true message of Christianity. Nothing can. There is a great deal we do not know about the early church so the more we can discover, the better off we are. Thank you again for another great show.
Thanks for having Brent on your show. I knew him while he was still a student and working on translating the original text. He is both a Christian and a scholar committed to adding to our body of knowledge concerning Jesus Christ. He is brilliant as well as a dedicated Christian.
I am an avid listener and frankly I don't feel as though you should make comments like "Please have more respect for your listeners." Your beliefs are your beliefs, please don't include the rest of us in them. Have more respect for others.
This writer did not come on the show preaching this information as fact. He is merely telling a story in which the listeners can interpret however they choose to. I found the entire broadcast incredibly fascinating and I can't wait to read the book. I found some of the callers to be rather closed minded when they made comments such as "this is hocus pocus" and "the bible is the truth, therefore, this book cannot be in any way true."
In my opinion, Mr. Landau was an incredible guest and I hope that you have more people on the show like him. Perhaps those who disagree should listen to the show again with a more open mind (especially since Mr. Landau is a Christian himself.)
I agree that there was no disrespect shown towards religion or Christianity at all during the show. The disucssion was interesting and I think shows that there is more information out there than just the Bible about the life of Jesus and that the Jewish people were not the only ones who had prophecies of a Messiah or Savior that would come into the world.
You should know that I am a fan of you and your show and will continue to be going forward. However, I was very disappointed in your guest today. I was very interested in the topic, but, as a Catholic, I was offended. His statement that the seven Books that comprise the Septuagint were not accepted as Cannon is false and at best very bad history. How can he call himself a scholar of the Bible? It is also a regular anti-Catholic type of statement and offensive. I'm sure that you did not intend to offend and may have simply not realized or understood why this might offend your Catholic listeners. The very term Apocryphal is meant to convey a false notion that these seven books are somehow heretical. I found particularly surprising that he would mention Josephus. He himself refers to a body of Jewish Scripture which contained the Septuagint as being what we would today consider Cannonical. Please understand, I do not want to offend my proetstant brothers and sisters nor further the ongoing controversy that divides us as Christians. However, I would appreciate it if they would refrain from using the Epithet "Apocryphal" when referring to these books.
Thanks to Dancer for the excellent comment.
Great show!
I just want to point out that Brent Landau should have not referred to the "Gospel of the Baby Jesus" and the "Gospel according to Thomas" as Apocrypha. That is a misleading misnomer, because to the contrary, these texts are widely known as "pseudo-epigraphy" not "apocrypha."
Pseudoepigraphy means "false writing," whereas, apocrypha means "hidden writing."
The writings that the author has used to develop his theories come from ancient writings that the Church considered them to be heretical from the start. The Church rejected them on the basis of deception, since the authorship and authenticity was not authentic, and the teachings contradicted the rest of Holy Scripture. It is as if I were to write a letter today, and authored by "the apostle Bartholomew," and claim divine revelation. It just can not be.
In the same way, the revelation of the magi was written 800 years after the events of the birth of Christ, and now Landau is bringing some new revelation from its translation. It is simply a novelty. I hope that people do not accept what this book reveals as "theological fact;" at best, it may be deserve a spot on at the end of the fiction aisle at Borders.
MD
The Magi have been the objects of speculation since the canon was set, mostly due to the paucity of details provided in scripture about them. They came, led by a "star", they saw, and they left. We are not told where they came from, how or when they arrived, how long they stayed or when they departed. They are mentioned at all in only one of the Gospels.
That said, it is an interesting story Brent tells us, and based as it is on an extremely old manuscript in the Vatican Archives, it has at least plausibility going for it.
The truth taught by the story, however, isn't necessarily an historic account of actual events, though it may well be just that. It is important in engaging in this sort of speculation, however, not to lose sight of the spiritual truths and the symbolism of the tale.
A very interesting program, and certainly apropos to the Advent Season. Thank you.
Let's look at some hard, established facts of 0 AD then
What was the big thing going on between East and West at that time? The Silk Road. Emperor Augustus of Rome around that time is recorded to have met delegations of 'Seres' (men of silk) and others. Buddhists from India were known to have visited around 14 AD.
The Wise Men are described as kings from a far away land bearing gifts. This book mentions that there were actually 12 kings with a group the size of a small army. When I hear about a large group of foreigners with goods near Jerusalem (a wealthy city of commerce), at the height of trade between Rome and Han Dynasty China... the idea that the wise men *might* be Chinese is not that far fetched!
I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and we too accept the Apocrypha as canonical. It's unfortunate that the term has come to mean something fictitious. I looked up the definition, and I was surprised to find that universally all the definitions use the word "non-canonical" or something to that effect. I guess you have to say, "non-canonical" by whose standards? Obviously, the Catholic and Orthodox denominations have been around far longer than the Protestants, so if we say they are canonical and the Johnny-come-latelys say they are not, I would go with the older denominations, thank you. The Orthodox have always accepted these books, as they are part of the Septuagint version of the Holy Scriptures, which is what was used during the time of Christ.
In response to your question, here is the full history of the "shrine of the Magi". Hope this helps. (part 1)
The Empress St. Helena (circa 248-330, mother of Constantine I) supposedly discovered their bodies in Persia in 325 AD during her pilgrimage to the Holy Land and brought them to Constantinople, where their remains rested in the Mosque of St. Sophia. It was she who established their identity within the early church although the Magi were not referred to as saints until the twelfth century. St. Helena died in 330.
Shortly thereafter, Eustorgio I, ninth bishop of Milan, received the remains of the Magi inside a huge Roman marble sarcophagus from the Emperor Constantine I (circa 288-337), and brought them to Milan on a wooden cart pulled by a team of oxen. The cart entered the city through Porta Ticinese, and then sank into the mud. Eustorgio decided that this was a sign from God, and built the first basilica on that site.
In 1163 or 1164, the Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich I (called "Barbarossa" meaning "Redbeard," 1122-1190) presented Cologne (Koln), Germany with a gift which he had taken from Milan after he had captured the city in March, 1162 -- the bones of the Three Wise Men. It is said that the remains were transported in three ships.
Within a few years, a shrine to house the relics was begun. The workshop of the goldsmith Nikolaus von Verdun was occupied for 50 years in the crafting of a golden shrine to house the relics (1180-1230). The shrine containing the relics can be seen today directly behind the high altar in the Cathedral. Fervent pilgrims began to flock to Cologne, which quickly became one of the primary religious sites in Germany.
A fabulous shrine was seen to need a stupendous church to house it, and the city of Cologne set about rebuilding its cathedral on a grand scale. Construction was begun in 1248 by the Archbishop Konrad von Hochstaden, in order to provide a more fitting cathedral to house the relics of the Three Magi.
(Part 2)
By 1265, the first of the chapels along the back of the cathedral were completed and in 1322, the Inner Choir with the High Altar was consecrated (even though this section had been completed around 1300). After 1322, the pace of construction slowed considerably, eventually grinding to a halt in 1560 due to a lack of funds. It was not until 1842 that construction was resumed by the King of Prussia, Friedrich Wilhelm IV. It took another 32 years of work to finish the Cathedral, with the last stonework being placed upon the South Tower in 1880.
After taking 632 years to complete (1248-1880), the Cathedral Church of SS. Peter and Mary in Cologne is the largest Gothic structure in northern Europe. It is currently the most visited building in Germany -- with 15,000,000 people a year come to view its beauty and its treasures. The shrine of the Three Wise Men is so famous that the church itself has become popularly known as the Dreikoenigenkirche (the Church of the Three Kings).
In 1906, some of the bones were returned to Milan and are now kept in an urn just above the altar of the Magi.
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