News Roundup - Hour 1
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-09-10/news-roundup-hour-1
The fight intensifies over the administration's proposed economic policies. Federal economists revise projections on health care spending. And the president voices support for his chief of staff as mayor of Chicago. A panel of journalists joins Diane for analysis of the week's top national news stories.
Guests
Eleanor Clift
contributing editor for "Newsweek."
Kate Zernike
national correspondent, The New York Times.
Byron York
chief political correspondent, Washington Examiner, and author of "The Vast Left Wing Conspiracy."
News Roundup Video
The panelists discuss Florida pastor Terry Jones' decision not to burn copies of the Koran to mark the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks as he had intended. They explore the media's role and discuss the controversy's relationship to a recent debate over the proposed construction of an Islamic center in Lower Manhattan near ground zero:
The panelists discuss the politics surrounding the debate over whether or not to keep the Bush-era tax cuts for individuals making more than $200,000 per year and couples making more than $250,000 per year:
Comments
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We have hate crimes. Why isn't burning Qurans (or Bibles, etc.) one of them?
Balloon Boy and now this "Christian" crackpot Jones that the media has elevated to the world stage where he can spew his hateful rhetoric. Whatever happened to investigative journalism? If the public had been presented the background facts about this fanatic, we could have avoided all this hatemongering.
For example:
The fact that when Terry Jones was based at a church in Germany, members of his church expelled him because of his extremism. A parishoner at The Christian Community of Cologne told German news magazine Der Spiegel Mr Jones presided over "a climate of fear and control" and demanded "blind obedience". "The pastor and his wife apparently regarded themselves as having been appointed by God, meaning opposition was a crime against the Lord,"
I'm a Gainesville resident who has lived in the area for fifteen years. We are a progressive town that prides ourselves on tolerance. I believe this man received too much media attention for this stunt. He's been bugging the residents of Gainesville for years and we just treat him like the village idiot. Now, we consider this to be a international issue. Ignore hime and he will again just be the guy on the outskirts of town burning qurans. Tax payers money and time is being wasted.
Ann Marie Amish
There really isn’t any reason why a mosque shouldn’t be built anywhere, including “Ground Zero”. However the issue itself brings up some very important questions we consistently seem to ignore.
Does anyone really think intelligent reasoned criticisms of Islam deserve accusations of "racism" and “bigotry”? The conservative posturing and ignorant fear comprising the popular reaction to Islam is not critical thinking and does not in any way represent intelligent debate on what has been called the “problem of Islam”.
There is a great deal of loud, vocal opposition in this country to Terry Jones Quran burning. From who? From the President, the Secretary of State, the Mayor of New York City, celebrities, public figures, religious leaders and members of the public.
Conversely, I have never seen (reported by US media) a comparable response from modern Muslims throughout the world to repeated murderous fatwas. For example, as reported in the Huffington Post (via Reuters) September 3, 2010: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/03/muslim-cleric-calls-for-b_n_705...
Since when is it acceptable or transformative to excuse Religious Imperialism (as in repeated international exhortations to murder) with the pretense of "Cultural Relativism"?
How would we all react if Jewish Rabbis or the Pope or Catholic Bishops or Episcopal Priests or Methodist Ministers, etc. regularly issued decrees of murder against others as a simple matter of practice? With casual complacency? I think not. Again, the response to Terry Jones shows us the answer to that question.
Like most of the media, you and your commentators are failing to point out that the President is not proposing to raise taxes only on persons "making more than $200,000" and couple "making" more than $250,000.
The cutoffs deal with TAXABLE INCOME, do they not?
That means that those affected by the tax rate increase actually "make" (have gross incomes) considerably higher than the numbers commonly cited. After "adding back in" various exemptions and deductions", a couple with a taxable income of $250,000 probably makes more like $350,000 or $400,000.
This is a very, very important distiction--please take the lead amongst the media in making efforts to correct this longstanding example of sloppy reporting.
About the tax issue; incomes of $225,000 for an individual or $250,000 per couple sure do not sound like middle class to me. Why are the wealthy so loathe to say they are wealthy?
Since when do we defend homocidal Religious Imperialism with the pretense of Cultural Relativism?
A recent example reported at The Huffington Post on September 3, 2010:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/03/muslim-cleric-calls-for-b_n_705...
Talk about misguided. Does anyone really think intelligent reasoned criticisms of Islam deserve accusations of "racism"?
Consider...
TED: Science Can Answer Moral Questions
Sam Harris speaking at TED 2010 - What the World Needs Now
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/ted-science-can-answer-moral-que...
TED 2010: The Price in Human Suffering of Being Open-Minded
by Kim Zetter, Wired, February 11, 2010
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/universal-morality/”
From The Washington Post - On Faith Blog
"Silence is not moderation" by Sam Harris, August 24, 2010
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/sam_harris/2010/08/silence_is_not_moderation.html
From The Daily Beast...
“What Obama Got Wrong About the Mosque” by Sam Harris, August 13, 2010
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-08-13/ground-zero-mo...
From Southen California Public Radio
“Would the ‘ground zero mosque’ be a symbol of religious tolerance, and should that be an American goal?”
http://www.scpr.org/programs/patt-morrison/2010/08/18/ground-zero-mosque/
Free Exercise of Religion? No, Thanks.
By Christopher Hitchens
Slate.com
Posted Monday, Sept. 6, 2010, at 11:39 AM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2266154/
AGAIN, does anyone really think intelligent reasoned criticisms of Islam deserve accusations of "racism"?”
It is a matter of priorities. Health care will help people, and cost less than the Bush tax cuts, which cost MORE money and did nothing but make the rich richer. No job growth which was the rationale for those cuts.
In mainstream America diversity is pretense, a mere posture.
If, as Americans pretend to believe, we hold everyone to an EQUAL standard, it follows that "real" acceptance of Islam means holding American Muslims to the same standards we impose on ourselves.
It is vital that "cultural relativism" involves understanding that very point...instead of reflexively excusing murderous fatwas in a misguided attempt to be accepting or tolerant.
Again, the Wilders example:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/03/muslim-cleric-calls-for-b_n_705...
The irony is well-intentioned people desiring to be accepting and respectful end up condoning violence. I do not think Muslims would approve of western "acceptance" that unremarkably acknowledges terrorism as a part of their belief system and/or culture.
The mainstream media has known for a very, very long time this one important thing: pathology is profitable.
In other words: fear sells. Don't believe that? Read "The Culture of Fear" by sociologist Barry Glassner, President of Lewis and Clark College.
The general public might not be so ignorant of Islam and so susceptible to stereotypes if the mainstream media, including NPR, would provide more balanced news of Muslims throughout the world...
The Record: Muslim leader issues 600-page anti-terror fatwa in London
Dated: 02 March 2010
Minhaj-ul-Quran International
http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/10475/The%20Record%20:%20Muslim%20lead...
"LONDON - A former Pakistani legislator who lives in Canada and leads a global Muslim movement has issued a fatwa, or religious edict, condemning terrorism.
Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri says the 600-page fatwa bans suicide bombing "without any excuses, any pretexts, or exceptions."
He is the founder of Minhaj-ul-Qur'an, a worldwide movement that promotes a non-political, tolerant Islam."
Are there more? Living with American media...how would we EVER know?
Has the T Party realized Alabama (ALA-BAMA) is a Muslim/Islam sympathizing state and has to be watched.
The story that Mr Jones planned to burn Korans strips bare what the media has become worldwide so I must disagree strongly with Ms Rehm who insisted just as strongly "don't blame the media". This is a media story about the media that must be carefully examined from inception to outrageous consequence that, fortunately, has not led to further violence...YET. BC
Every expression of hate is not a crime. It may be a sin and morally indefensible, but it is not unlawful.
Burning things that others hold sacred, a Bible, a Quran, an American flag, are actions of protected speech.
These actions may be seen as hateful and provocative, but to be a "hate crime", there must be a crime committed (eg assault, arson, vandalism) whose motives include the expression of hate against someone because he or she is a member or thought to be a member of the group the perpetrator hates, or against property owned by the hated person or group.
Irresponsible, Ms Rehm, for you, as moderator, to allow Kate Zernike to persistently (or even once!) refer to the Park51 project as the "mosque at Ground Zero." Your allowing such a mis-representation stands as a tacit--or not so tacit--endorsement of the Islamophobia that is running the debate about this project.
Hello, let us clearly and accurately recall that Bush"W" was NOT elected, he was selected to be the president by the action of the Supreme court intervening (illegally) to stop the counting of the ballots in Florida. He came into office with a surplus and created a deficit of 10.7 trillion in a mere 8 years. AND the financing of the illegal war for oil is not even included in the national numbers. So, to say that this good President is being criticized for blaming the previous administration is really criminal and negligent. It is ENTIRELY the fault of the Bush administration (Both Bush's actually) as well as continued damage from the Reagan efforts that abandoned rules and governance of corporate misbehavior. (Turns out that Mr. Gore was right, we should have saved the surpus money "for a rainy day")
President Obama is doing many right and necessary things that the Republicans don't have the courage or the stomach for. We have a large and diverse country, we need an government that reflects and directs efforts on behalf of the people, not the corporations and their financial interests. What our government can do, it should do, that includes a solid national health program, that, by the way, is well-received and very beneficial to all Americans. If they don't like it, they simply don't understand it, or merely don't want to. Also, it does help to bring our national healthcare burden on the GDP from it's current 17% to around 14%, just like it was designed to do. The most effective and efficient healthcare plan would be a universal, single-payor national program (which I support) that would get our costs down to arounc 11 or 12% of GDP.
I have no idea how Diane can say, "don't blame the media." Of course the media is responsible for giving this man a national stage. There are plenty of crazy folks in this country, it is best to ignore them.
FlIn on September 10, 2010 - 9:30 am asked: "We have hate crimes. Why isn't burning Qurans (or Bibles, etc.) one of them?"
The answer is simple. In order for something to be a hate crime, it must first be a crime! What this idiot wants to do is protected under the First Amendment (although it may be subject to reasonable regulation under the Fire code). Therefore it is not a crime, and cannot be a hate crime
Mark Graff on September 10, 2010 - 10:56 am asked: "I have never seen (reported by US media) a comparable response from modern Muslims throughout the world to repeated murderous fatwas."
Golly, could it be because you're not looking very hard?
Imam behind proposed NYC Muslim center, mosque near ground zero struggles to bridge divisions - which includes statements condemning violence
(http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/29/imam-proposed-nyc-muslim-center-mos...)
Poll: 93% of Muslims Worldwide Condemn 9/11 Attacks – 0% Approve of Attacks on Religious Grounds
(http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/02/27/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-...)
Or, just try a websearch for the words: Muslims condemn 9/11 attack.
In other words, stop blaming Muslims for your own laziness!
Mark Graff on September 10, 2010 - 10:48 am asked : "Does anyone really think intelligent reasoned criticisms of Islam deserve accusations of 'racism'?"
No, but then your posts are hardly examples of reasoned criticism. All you keep doing is repeating the same misinformation. An opinion contrary to fact is worthless, and that describes yours! As I've previously mentioned, plenty of Muslims denounced the 9/11 attacks, and terrorism in general.
As for the opinions of Mr. Harris and Mr. Hitchens, you should be aware that they are what has been called "Fundamentalist Atheists" (or as I prefer to call them "Anti-Theists, as distinct from Atheists). They don't simply disbelieve in religion, they belittle and demean anyone who does, making no distinction between fundamentalist religious fanatics, and people of faith who are also people of goodwill. In this, of course, they are the mirror image of the very thing they oppose: people attempting to promote their own intolerance "for the best of reasons". Just like you sir.
Mark Graff on September 10, 2010 - 10:51 am wrote: "In mainstream America diversity is pretense, a mere posture."
No, sir, the pretense is your imposture to making a reasoned argument.
Following your argument, this Jew demands we hold all Christians to the same standard you would hold all Muslims: they should be judged by the most murderous and intolerant of their members, until they all have denounced such actions. So, until I hear every Christian condemn its almost 2,000 year history of persecuting my people, I demand that every church be torn down, and every copy of the (so-called) New Testament be burned!
Don't worry, that's sarcasm. But it's an adequate description of your position about Islam.
Listening to the show, and agree strongly that the media did blow things out of proportion- it was mentioned that Petraeus jumped in immediately- that is not the case. The paster made the threat weeks ago and was only recently the top brass moved on it. The story has been picked up and has gone viral and perhaps would have done so without media attention. BUT- the amount of media attention focused on this person gave him enough visibility to be in a position to attempt leveraging deals that he has no business conducting. AND- there has been little or no attention focused on the positive things happening in the community and the interfaith response that builds community support- especially the reasoned and compassionate response of the local Muslim community, which has turned to feeding the poor and donating blood rather than violence. Which says more about how best to respond to tension? Which DESERVES more media attention?
To Mark Graff (posting on September 10, 2010 - 10:53 am):
Oh, so suddenly you can be bothered to find proof that Muslims have denounced terrorism. So, pray tell why you wasted space with your prior bigoted remarks? I thought you were merely too lazy to learn the truth, now I must conclude you're pathological!
After all, you've just refuted everything you previously wrote, and far better than I ever could!
Diane misspoke that Gen. Petraeus caused the media to focus attention on Jones. See this article in Slate for why the General had to comment: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/09/10/terry_jones_koran...
Diane - this was not overhyped because of Petraeus, it was because of the win at all cost dumbed down media mob in this country.
@ Etaoin Shrdlu
"...until I hear every Christian condemn its almost 2,000 year history of persecuting my people..."
Wrong. And you call yourself an attorney?
AS IF christian idiocy hundreds of years ago is ANY comparison to the modern day terrorism of extremist Muslims TODAY. I don't see any christians flying planes into buildings for purely christian policital purposes TODAY. I don't see christian "leaders" issuing decrees of murder against those who threaten them TODAY.
AGAIN, how would we all react if modern day Jewish Rabbis or the Pope or Catholic Bishops or Episcopal Priests or Methodist Ministers, etc. regularly demanded the murder of others as a simple matter of practice? With casual complacency? I think not.
AGAIN, the response to Terry Jones shows us the answer to that question.
AGAIN, if, as Americans pretend to believe, we hold everyone to an EQUAL standard, it follows that "real" acceptance of Islam means holding American Muslims to the same standards we impose on ourselves.
Your pretense of "diversity" is precisely that.
@ Etaoin Shrdlu
Your "poll" is from TWO YEARS AGO.
Regarding the Imam's statement: why did it take him more than a month to say ANYTHING?
So, aside from Rauf's statement, nothing in the last two years has been published in the American media...and I'm "not looking very hard"?
This discourse can do WITHOUT your arrogance.
If you bothered to read my comment at 10:58am you would know I'm I'M ALREADY AWARE of INTERNATIONAL reports of Muslims condemning murderous fatwas. This is not so much an observation of modern Muslims as it is an observation of the American Media. But you would not see that.
Please don't let reality get in the way of your reflexively defensive liberal politics.
@ Etaoin Shrdlu
"...your posts are hardly examples of reasoned criticism."
Really?
http://www.samharris.org/site/about/
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/publications-and-lectures/
Sam Harris is the author of the New York Times bestsellers, The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation. The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction.
Mr. Harris' writing has been published in over fifteen languages. He and his work have been discussed in Newsweek, TIME, The New York Times, Scientific American, Nature, Rolling Stone, and many other journals. His writing has appeared in Newsweek, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The Times (London), The Boston Globe, The Atlantic, The Annals of Neurology, and elsewhere.
Mr. Harris is a Co-Founder and CEO of Project Reason, a nonprofit foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society. He received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.
@ Etaoin Shrdlu
You make the classic self-involved mistake of a theist: implicitly defending fundamentalist religious fanatics.
Professing a "distinction between fundamentalist religious fanatics and people of faith" is a disturbingly simplistic and reductive fantasy. No different from pretending there were "good" Nazis against genocide but in favor of Hilter improving the German economy.
Want me to break down theistic conflict for you? My "imaginary friend" (i.e. "god") told me to hate your "imaginary friend".
I thought lawyers had better, more OBJECTIVE, bases for their arguments.
Hillary would never have been so naive, reactive and unproductive as Obama.
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