Religious Intolerance in the U.S.
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-09-09/religious-intolerance-us
The history of religious and racial intolerance in the U.S.: Diane and guests explore what's changed and what hasn't nine years after the 9/11 attacks and discuss current concerns over what some are calling an anti-Muslim frenzy.
Guests
Barry Lynn
executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and author of "Piety & Politics" (Harmony Books)
Robert Destro
professor of law,
director, Interdisciplinary Program in Law & Religion
Columbus School of Law
The Catholic University of America
Azizah al-Hibri
professor of law, University of Richmond
founder and chair, KARAMAH: Muslim Women Lawyers for Human Rights
Andrew Kohut
director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
Any conversation on this issue should start with an answer to this question. Do you agree "your religion is right for you and my religion is right for me"
I heartlly agree with this comment as do all Christians I know
With respect to the Koran burning issue
It is interesting that about the same percentage of Americans deplore the Koran burning as those who want the 9/11 Mosque relocated. In both cases, the public should prevail.
General Pretreus comments are significant because he is leading our fight in Afghanistan. Are we at war with the Terrorists or Islam itself? Muslims are very protective of Islam and are liable to change positions for religious reasons. Muslims in Afghanistan already hate American and this action of burning Korans will further inflame that hatred. As a matter of fact the proposed action has already inflamed the Muslims and these hatreds don’t go away. Rrecall the drawing of Muhammed with a bomb for a turbin.
I don’t think it is enough to stop the Koran Burning. It should be tied to the Mosque relocation. The public should prevail in both cases. American values of freedom and decency should be promoted to compare with Islamic values and religious xenophobia.
Al Qaeda is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity.
Are Christians required to denounce the KKK regularly? If you have not loudly and recently decried the behavior of the KKK, does that make you a sympathizer?
Is this not the way we Americans have been treating Muslims? How many times must they repeat that Islam is a religion of peace?
Paul
Isn't burning a cross on someone's lawn considered a "hate crime"? If so, burning the Koran would have to come under the same standard.
I do not condone what this minister in Florida is doing, it is not what Christ teaches, but I understand the frustration. Why I have a problem trusting Muslims is that they will complain about how bad they are being treated by the West; but take no responsiblity to stand up against the extremist that threaten our society. I hear complaints about why we are mistreating them and Muslims are really so peace loving; but yet if you go to any Muslism counrty a person is executed if they try to convert an person to Christianity, or even carry a bible. What about the doctors that were killed in Afganistan a few weeks ago. To me what your guests are failing to do is opening discuss why Americans would be distrustful of Muslim motives.
Stopping the burning of the Quran will eventually create more violence. The world is held hostage by Islam; even the Pope is gagged against expressing any Islamic opinion. Perhaps letting hundreds of people around the world perform this inflammatory action could minimize this particular event importance otherwise any future action, comment or opinion perceived anti-Islamic will create more violent Muslim reactions around the world.
C. Cantu
San Antonio, TX
In considering terrorism, I don't think it is accurate to consider terrorist as Muslims. Such as it is inaccurate to consider slave owners as Christians. The religion does not permit such acts. So we must rethink who we give certain titles to. If we consider this, the religion or group does not suffer.
While the proposed burning of the Koran is not appropriate, what value is there in the President and members of his administration predicting violence in response in Muslim countries as if this is the most appropriate response by these people? Doesn't this represent an endorsement of such extremism?
While it is understandable that Muslims would be upset by the desecration of their holy book, there should be some elements of civility in their response to such acts. The lack of such civility among extremists within Islam is precisely the terrorism that all persons need to oppose and seek to eradicate from the earth.
My father worked in the World Trade Center and was there on 9/11. He did not survive. My family and I searched the city for him and his co-workers, we posted pictures, we donated supplies for the workers at Ground Zero, we were desperate and terrified like the rest of the city, but I did not--not then and not now-- blame Islam for what happened. So I am horrified to hear the anti-Mosque movement use my name for their cause. I cannot speak for the families of other victims of 9/11, but I know that I would welcome a Mosque as part of the Ground Zero complex, would welcome the healing and mutual respect and understanding that that would represent.
Diane, you need to call out the 'straw man' arguments in this segment more firmly. One of your guests quoted the biblical book of Matthew when Jesus states that he came to 'bring the sword'. This is a well known quote and largely understood by believers and non-believers alike to mean that Christ's followers would be persecuted for their faith. Christ's life was obviously one of non-violence and non-politics. While Mohammed did not quote this same thing in the Koran, no legitimate historian could reasonably argue that Mohammed's life was not filled with violence and politics. He gave his followers during his lifetime orders to commit violence (Muslims would say to defend themselves largely, but history seems to show otherwise) and he was heavily involved in the politics of the areas he lived in. And, unlike the implication in your program, the Koran does have a number of verses and sections which do seem to give Muslims the 'OK' to act violently towards those who oppose them. This is consistent with Mohammed's own history and life.
While it may be vogue to criticize Christians and the church for what one strange and lonely (notice there is not a mass movement among churches to burn the Koran) pastor is planning to do, I think a larger question should be why millions of Muslims around the world violently react to this type of thing. Why would a very large portion of Islam react violently to this ? Why will this pastor's life be in grave danger (much like the lives of cartoonists in Europe and elsewhere who depicted Mohammed in their cartoons)? What's wrong with a religion where this kind of thing occurs regularly? These are the kinds of questions we need to be asking ourselves.
As a Buddhist, I was deeply saddened when the Taliban blew up the beautiful stone Buddhas in Afghanistan in 2001. I thought is was a loss for Buddhists but also a loss for world heritage. However, even if all Buddha statues and texts were destroyed, it would not destroy Buddhism. Buddhism doesn't exist in these material things. Buddhism exists when people practice it.
While I'm sad at the loss of the stone Buddhas, it in no way changes my positive feelings toward Islam--I still celebrate the Islamic new year with my Moslem friends!
I agree with the Dalai Lama, that "kindness is my true religion." May all people respect (tolerate is too meek a term) each others beliefs, including atheism.
My mother was a Roman Catholic nun for 5 years before choosing a different path that eventually lead to marriage and children. She raised me Roman Catholic. She made a point of always saying that there are many paths to God. She was adamant that if you havent at least read a Holy book you can't give an opinion on it. I thoroughly agree. However, it seems the human default is to fear the unknown.
It is deplorable the number of supposed Christians who condemn the Koran when they haven't read it. I am particularly offended by religious leaders making inflammatory statements it is very irresponsible.
This reminds me of a saying I heard years ago
"Jesus please protect me from your followers" .
Laurie in South Florida
God Bless you ffx - I discuss this issue on many forums and sadly, I don't hear you comment from most of the Muslims.
I believe "your religion is right for you and my religion is right for me" and I hope you do also.
I dont think the Koran should be burned because the majority of Americans are offended by it. I also think that the 9/11 mosque should be moved because it too is offensive to Americans. These issues should be linked because it demonstrates American values and freedoms.
Your comment inspires me deeply. May peace be with you.
My earlier comment was in response to Roxana.
@Roxana Alger Geffen:
Your comment inspires me deeply. May peace be with you.
I totally agree stacks. If they are going to talk the talk, they will also have to walk it. This country is based on our FREEDOMS, we cannot forget that.
I m a regular listener of NPR, & contribute to it. However, I have increasingly noticed that my dollars are going in supporting the Muslim faith & familiarizing the rest of America to it. Has NPR & DR Show been reduced to this? Every other program I listen to is talking about Islam, its history, people, culture, or anything to do with it!
I believe in tolerance & charity, & have nothing against any religion, but I see the media, including NPR, is giving unprecedented & uncalled-for exposure to religion, especially Islam. I am from India, & my country has suffered plunder & loot for centuries through the hands of Islam & Christianity. Yet we don’t make a hue & cry out of it, because that is history; & now we look in the future because we all are independent nations, & responsible to what happens there. So why only empathize with Islam & its history? I feel , & there are myriad instances to support that, that Islam is the only religion that does NOT believe in co-existing. Wherever they go, they want to overtake that nation & its people, & replace them with Muslims.
Why should they have the sense of entitlement in this country, or any country? Or does media think that other religions don’t matter because they keep quiet? Islam says that they practice peace - is it a joke? Look at MOST places that suffer unrest - Darfur, Chechnya, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine; all have Islamic presence! They try to picture like the rest of the religions are out to get them, when it is the other way round.
I can give you tons of examples from past & present if that's where we want to go.
In the end, I would say that 'A religion is only as good as its people'. Quran may teach peace (which EVERY religious book does) but the actions of its people speak otherwise.
I would urge media to stop popularizing & empathizing with just one religion. There are many more who have contributed to the prosperity of this country, & the world, & they need a say too!
As a Unitarian Universalist, We believe in the right of a persons personal beliefs. However, when a persons beliefs are based in hate, ignorance, and misinformation; Their actions and speech are damaging to communities.
I have experienced, the person pontificating their propaganda sometimes have a narrow scope of education, and have not had actual experience in the subject they are advocating against.
Good grief - what insanity -- this idiotic pastor who insists on the Koran burning is an insignificant loony guy in a tiny church with a tiny following. It seems about 99.99% of the rest of American Christians ARE loudly and vehemently denouncing him (including Sarah Palin!) --- YET the radicals in the mid east say this represents America!
On the other hand, we vast majority of Americans graciously and intelligently realize and say that we know that radical Islam does NOT represent all of Islam.
There IS a clash of cultures.
Mary Ann from Gainesville, thanks for your comments. I'm from Gainesville too.
You are right. The real story here is the media, not obscure Koran burning preachers.
What we see here is the media bias for drama, which is driven by a desire for audience and ad revenue.
Sadly, this question was raised by an articulate caller from Gainesville on the show, and all the commentators could do was repeat the same dishonest rationalizations the media routinely offers.
First the media creates stories like the Koran burning preacher out of thin air in order to boost audience and ad revenues. Then, when government officials are forced to respond, the media claims they are obligated to cover the story.
In this case, people in Gainesville might actually get hurt because of the media's business model.
Every time extremists blow something up, we give them billions of dollars worth of free advertising, thus rewarding the very behavior we claim to be shocked by.
The media profits, the extremists profit, we die, that's how it works.
dnxtlvl, are you kidding me? Did you not watch the planes crash into the buildings? Controlled demolition? It's people like you perpetuating conspiracy theories that fuel the radical Islam recruiting centers. give us all a break and stick to the topic at hand.
The entire show and not one suggestion of where to find a modern, secular, description of Islam. Plenty of complaints from Azizah al-Hibri about the 18th century Orientalists, but where should one go to find out more?
May I suggest Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes. It is available through Amazon.com
This is not a textbook, a scholarly dissertation or a philosophical presentation. It is an attempt by the author, a historian, who happens to be a Muslim, to describe the Islamic faith to an acquaintance. Check the reviews and read the introduction on-line.
I recommend the audio version since the author is the reader which added something to this non-religious Geezer, well into his golden years.
I am not a book salesman or in anyway associated with the sales of this book.
Thank you for the suggested book.
(I sent the following msg on this subject to WashPost ombudsman some months ago. My son said I'd never see it in the mainstream press, and he's right. That contributes to the problem)
After terrorist news, you nearly always get letters and opinion-pieces asking why Islamic leaders and moderates don’t speak out against terrorism. They have, repeatedly, as you and I discussed.
Why, then, don’t you give people this news, that they are begging for? That the Imams of North America have unanimously signed a formal fatwa (religious policy declaration), citing Koranic chapter and verse, that is highly laudatory of how well Muslims are treated here (“better than in many Islamic countries”), and stating that terrorism in the name of Islam is an anathema, and an attack on North America will be considered an attack on its 10 million Muslims.
Moreover, there have been many anti-terrorism protest demonstrations in Muslim countries, at great personal risk to the hundreds, sometimes thousands, of demonstrators. This is clearly news, not opinion.
I’m told that newspapers have a conflict of interest: News about terror sells more papers than news about agreement. I don’t want to believe that’s the issue here. If there is anything phony about this news, then that fact is more news. Isn’t that what newspapers exist for?
You said you never heard of this group. Of course not, if you and others won't report it.
It's freedom of speech everyone. Get used to it Muslims in US.
Its funny on the show I did not hear any Muslim defend their right to burn the Koran, yet we have to hear endlessly about the right to build the Islam center near ground zero.
Presumably these Korans that they are burning are their property, therefore they can do whatever they want with them.
In fact I think this church is doing a valuable service. It is reminding us here in the US who these Muslims are once again with their threats of violence and death threats. Lets remember that and act acordingly.
US should radically reduce our interests in the Mideast and leave them alone so we don't have to always worry about offending the poor Muslims.
Dear folks,
There are one and a half billion Muslims in the world, and the overwhelming vast majority of them have no interest whatsoever in violence. They just want to make a living and raise their kids in peace like anybody else.
Islam is not the issue. Christianity is not the issue. That's not the battle.
The issue is extremists of all flavors, and their partnership with the media.
The battle is between decent peace loving people and extremists, and those who profit from promoting extremism.
I am sick and tired of the talk of Muslim "victimhood". The religion has billions of followers in the world, owns some of the richest countries and claims a long history of cultural achievement. If it is not doing too well, heck, it has only itself to blame.
The American people, collectively and on average, is a people of fair and open mind. We can tell a fair argument and buy it when we hear one. We respect success whoever or however one achieves it.
Yet the Muslim world has little to show us except the concept "Orientalism". Hello! You are not where you can lecture us. Don't run when you don't know how to walk. How about getting back to the basics? Such as Rule of Law, learn to reason and, the most annoying to me, stop counting the Muslim slaughtered by other Muslims as victims of the West or the Israelis.
I don't care if the Arabs invented the numbering system we use today. They still don't know how to count, for crying out loud!
I would refer all members of the media to this article: Islamophobe's Past in Germany: Terry Jones Accused of 'Spiritual Abuse' at Cologne Church published on line by Der Speigel International. Those who are contributing to Mr. Jones' "demonstration" should know from whence he came and why.
They have the right of free speech, just as burning the flag is protected by free speech. However, we also have the right to ignore and/or the right to condemn their actions. There is a famous ACLU case back in the 70's which occured in Skokie, Illinois, a place, which, at the time, was populated by a mostly Jewish community including Holocaust Survivors. A neo-Nazi group was planning to march in this community, and a lawsuit was brought to prevent them from doing so (a TV movie was made in 1981 which dramatizes this event). The community of Skokie lost their lawsuit based on the First Amendment. However, the Nazi group was ridiculed by swarms of protestors, and they ended up not marching. If the same thing happens to these book burners, that would send the message much clearer that their actions are not approved or condoned then somehow preventing them from doing their action.
The issue at hand is really a simple one: Religion itself is the problem. All religions, each and every one, is constantly vying for power, and while your guests all make nice now on the radio, history is enlightening as to the truth, which is as that all religions are seeking absolute power, and will stop at nothing to get it.
Atheists and agnostics don't make war, christians/jews/muslims/hindus/astrologists/etc. do. And. given the opportunity, religious fanatics will oppress/imprison/stone/burn those whose disagree with them, because at their core all religions are totalitarian in nature and thus can't stand dissent, even in the form of thought crime (e.g. "God is watching you and knows everything you do.").
This issue with the koran burning in Florida is a great example; muslims around the world are up in arms over something that is really none of their concern. What somebody on the other side of the world does is none of their business, and their reaction is instructive in the extreme.
See, as with members of other cults, they are are not content to worship their god in private, a basic human right I would fight to defend. No, they are upset because a few people on the other side of the world think differently.
Religion poisons absolutely everything.
Racial/religious intolerance has always been there and would always be there. I believe its basic human nature to be comfortable with whats known, and be repulsive with what does not align with our belief / thought. Which to me is fine. However, how you react to it is what bothers me. I can not understand how anyone can be so intolerant to want to eliminate what is different.
However, I do not think the anti-muslim frenzy in US is merely because of the religious intolerance. Muslims in US are just not in that big number at present. I think it comes from the perception of muslims where your allegiance to ummah is greater than your nation.
It comes from knowing how Islam has spread rapidly through different regions. How does religious minorities in any Islamic nation / muslim dominated region vanish? Lets not argue about superiority of islamic faith because I do not think it would justify its rapid expansion till southwest asia.