Giving a Grade to Education Reform
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-09-08/giving-grade-education-reform
The Obama administration is spending billions of dollars to overhaul the nation's public schools. How efforts to improve teacher performance and raise academic standards are playing out across the country.
Guests
Arne Duncan
Secretary of Education in the Obama Administration.
Alyson Klein
staff writer, Education Week, a specialty publication aimed at the education policy community.
Cynthia Brown
vice president for education policy, Center for American Progress.
Rick Hess
resident scholar and director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute; author of the forthcoming book "The Same Thing Over and Over."
Comments
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One question I have is the testing that is used to evaluate teachers is not counted against the students grade. So the student has no incentive to do well on these tests. I think this is a major disconnect in the evaluation process.
Excellent discussion. Race to the Top is a game changer.
By the time these federal funds "trickle down" to our school districts there is nothing left to make meaningful impact. Plus there are so many restrictions of how the funds can and cannot be used that school districts' hands are tied. How about our Magnet programs? Their funding is being slashed and these are programs with proven results for student achievement. Ugh! This is so frustrating!
As a DC public school parent, I am always disturbed to hear any discussion that infers that a single person is responsible for change, whether it is good or bad. Many of the concepts in place in the DC schools were actually originally created by our previous superintendent Clifford Janey (who is now in Newark, NJ), and even Michelle Rhee, the current DCPS "chancellor", has admitted that her administration has built on that foundation with positive results. However, as a parent, my concern has been that standards pushed by NCLB have been detrimental to schools — here in DC, we are beginning to see students just ending up somewhere in the middle and many schools that had been the top schools for years are now failing the AYP (Adequate Yearly Progress) standards set through NCLB. Why is it that we only really ask our schools to be "Adequate"? Is this supposed to really get our children ready for global competition?
One issue in standardized testing is the need for cohort testing rather than grade-level testing.
Teachers don't mind seeing how the class of 2018 did this year as compared to how they did last year, but it seems invalid to compare how the class of 2018 did this year as opposed to how the class of 2017 did a year earlier.
Treating a grade level as if the kids were interchangeable cogs passing through the machine leads to poor evaluations for teachers and kids alike. Is anything being done to correct this problem?
I am so sick of political types who are unaware of the realities of life as a teacher on the front lines. Who holds parents accountable for kids being late or absent or behavior problems? What about class size? What is the responsibility of parents to turn off the television, feeding them real food instead of junk, and getting them to bed on time? Blaming teachers for the failure of students is not the answer. This conversation is infuriating.
The businessifcation of education won't fix anything, as Diane Ravitch persuasively argues. What it will do, instead, is bureaucratize teaching even more and affirm the fallacy that student failure is always the teacher's fault; it will drive out good teachers along with the supposed bad ones. I don't know how to fix our obviously broken educational system, but this isn't it. Maybe for starters we should hire teachers who made good grades themselves, pay them well, not overburden them with large classes (or give those who are good at dealing with problem students too many problem students), and have other teachers--not administrators, who often have a very limited insight into the educational process--advise and mentor them in their early years, and then release them from observation to do their creative best. That still won't solve the problem, of course; somehow, parents have to be persuaded to read to their children, reinforce the importance not just of high-school and college degrees but of knowledge itself, demonstrate curiosity about the world, and insist on their children's responsibility to work hard at becoming educated without the expectation of instant gratification.
Teachers are not paid enough to have their evaluations tied to thier students' achievement. I despise the focus on testing results to judge teachers based on a student's result on one test, on one day in a 180 day school year.
I agree with your comment...but what is infuriating to me is the singular focus on "test scores".
In fact, value added tests may not be "better than doing nothing". Cite valid research that demosntrates it.
Bottom line, how does race to the top benefit my child who is a 2nd grader in a Texas public school.
Question:
In comparing test scores with other countries, politicians never mention that most countries track students, meaning only the top 10% of their students even go to high school in preparation for college. This means all of our students including special ed students, take the tests in America where only the top students take the exams elsewhere.
Why do we set ourselves up to look bad?
I am a teacher of 16 years. My question is why are we so easily focused on teachers but not parents and students. We had several students at our school diliberately do poorly on the FCAT because they knew it would hurt the school and principal. They openly admitted it after the test. They freely stated they knew they could simply retake the test. In the meantime our principal was moved and our teachers paid a price. The students simply retook the test. No real consequences for the students.
Why do we continually refuse to make students and parents responsible as well. I am all for evaluating teachers. I know some of those "poor" teachers and it does hurt the students but they have been in educations since its inception. The change has been in student behavior and accountability. There is no real consequences for students who are chronically absent or disruptive or even under the influence while in school. We give the parents and students a free pass when it comes to improving our schools.
I am interested in the Parents as Teachers program started in Missouri many years ago that is losing funding. It is/was an excellent program helping parents help their children get started in their education at home.
Also, I am concerned that curiosity and creativity are not measured in the testing of students. Without these two components promoted throughout the school system, what good is basic reading, writing and math?
How will the research done by Geoff Canada be incorporated into Obama's plan? Mr. Canada has shown that unless the US funds a "conveyer belt" system to teach under-priviledged parents how to prepare their children for school from birth to pre-school, nothing schools do will be able to "catch kids up" to their peers. Research shows that by age three, it is too late to bring most under-priviledged students to the college table. I agree that teachers should be assessed and evaluated for excellence but we seem to be unwilling as a country to train under-priviledged parents. This is where the greatest difference can be made.
Thank you!
I so agree with your point of view as a parent and a teacher. Why are we not hearing more of this perspective? It makes no sense to continue to focus on "better teachers" and "better schools" how about "better homes"?
As a teacher I would gladly give up any bonus, grant, pay raise, etc. if that money went to enforcing truancy, tadiness, and discipline in schools. Those elements impact a classroom far more than a "lazy" teacher. Students and parents do not feel they need to respect schools today and that is the biggest hinderence to education.
This discussion has become meaningless and pointless. After 20 yrs. in the Florida public ed system, I couldn't take the stress/frustration/disrespect from both students and parents/politics within the school anymore; ultimately it began taking a toll on my health. I left the profession five years ago and basically sacrificed my retirement in doing so. EVERY politician thinks they know how to fix a broken system because they went to school. Every individual that is running for any elected public office (from mayor to President) should be required to volunteer in a "failing" public school for a minimum of six months. Maybe they all come from school districts where every student lives with both biological parents that have post-bac degrees in childhood development, receives a nutritionally balanced breakfast at home and has had a full night's sleep; and all their schools are A-rated and every teacher is "highly qualified"? I would not say all but many, many, many i.e. all but a few administrators were classroom teachers that fled the daily grind of the classroom after a relatively few years but were not willing to give up the retirement benefit. I don't hear any talk of putting them on the line for student progress.
Like everyone else, teachers should be graded based on performance. No one should have tenure. There are a multitude of reasons that our education system is failing us, and teachers are not solely to blame, but the current system makes them mostly unaccountable. I would be fine making administrators live and die by the same criteria.
There is no replacement for the Parent Quotient. This push to blame the teacher is being promoted by those of the most recent generation (now parenting) who were "too cool for school" themselves. The guest using the term "peer group" repeatedly rings trite, - and there you have it ... a phone-in reveals the woman has NEVER taught in the classroom. HA! That hits the nail on the head with the folly of the current push to rake teachers over the coals for societal ills. I wonder if the "peer groups" she refers too are threatened with assault daily - both verbally and physically - from parents and students alike? Coming from a family of educators, I can tell you many horror stories of parent / student behavior... behavior that destroys the learning environment for all present for the "acting out".
Today, teachers must also compete with a sexualized society, tweets, texts, late night computer gaming... the list is endless. Have you considered the challenge of teaching a Victorian classic (considered the norm for an educated individual to be aware of) vs. s-e-x ? Until parents become involved, and demonstrably so, the school system shall serve as a daycare service with the truely interested learning what they may amongst the chaos.
Note: I am a research chemist who never truely cared for math... last to finish the test in that field. How does THAT reflect on the teacher's abilities? I suggest it does NOT. I am completely galled at those pushing this effort from the top down, rather than from the teacher's perspective up!
Couldn't agree more with the Jacksonville teacher who left for reasons of health (not to mention sanity I'd say). The six months in the trenches trial is a gem, as well as your comment with regard to those who fled to the "head office". Thank you so much, I appreciate your EDUCATED point of view. Excellent post!
I love this show! Thank you Diane.
I too love local honey. When I worked at a health food store in Maine, we used to recommend local honey for local allergies. Now I live in Michigan. But have you too heard of doing this? And is there any place I can go to find where there would be local honey. We had one in Buchanan but they went out of business. Any suggestions?
So much of student progress is laid on the backs of the teachers. There is no ruler for measuring the motivation of the student. If the students refuse to learn, the best teachers will not be able to meet the benchmarks.
I strongly urge you to have as guests those in the forefront of opposition to RTTT and the reliance on test scores for evaluating students and teachers. There are scores of groups on facebook and the web (including "Children Are More Than test Scores", "Fairtest", "Forum for Education and Democracy" and "SOS Million Teacher March") that represent parents and teachers who object to test-driven policies imposed on a socially and economically uneven playing field. NCLB and RTTT will do nothing more than continue to drive out competent teachers from low income communities, encourage a curriculum of test preparation, and strip creativity, critical thinking and love of learning from our classrooms. We need to hear the voices of those who know that there is a better way to spend our tax dollars and improve our education system.
Bess Altwerger
Professor of Educational Technology and Literacy
Towson University
I am a teaching student looking forward to having a classroom. I believe in accountability, but parents and students should also be held accountable. My biggest question to the teachers I observe is "How do you get everything covered in such a short amount of time?" Therein lies the problem...students today learn 3-5 times more, and sooner, than I did when I went to school in the seventies and early eighties. You want to effect change? Add days to the school year...consider year-round school with shorter breaks...Most teachers spend at least a couple weeks reviewing previously learned material just to get kids ready for the new year.
This isn’t a blame game. The discussion is on the effectiveness of performance based pay in education. Or simply put, how can we reward those teachers who are most effective… who are the highest performances. The idea being that this sort of free-market, proven system will then incent the wider pool of teachers to perform at a higher level.
In this chain of comments many argue that this isn’t fair, because so much is out of the control of the teacher (e.g., what happens at home). The exact opposite is true - - - This is the exact type of environment that this performance-based system actually makes the most sense. It is the teachers who are effective, who are successful in the face of such adversity that should be rewarded; The ones who overcome the exact social hurdles mentioned (tardiness, nutrition, truancy, discipline, etc) and yet are still able to successfully educate our children that should recognized.
Every person in every occupation faces challenges & hurdles every day that are out of their control. Those who succeed in the face of those hurdles get rewarded, promoted, compensated accordingly. Those who continuously point their fingers tend to accept mediocrity and get left behind.
It frustrates me when I hear my peers (yes I’m a teacher of 20 years) say we need to operate in a different world, according to different rules. We need to move forward and yes I recognize that there are legitimate open questions about how do we measure success. But until we move ahead we have to recognize that the people who pay our salaries [the public] will continue to question why we can’t operate in the same world they live in.
Data explodes "Chicago Turaround Miracle Myth" that Arne took to D.C. Chicago Tribune publishes info that didn't get publicized for some reason:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...
President Obama's education "reform" is an extension of Bush's, & every bit as much of a disaster.
Five major studies have demonstrated that charter schools have no advantage, on average, over traditional public schools -- except in increasing segregation by race, income, language & disability.
All the major models of "reform" -- NYC, New Orleans, Chicago -- have now been shown to have been frauds.
Teach for America teachers cost more to hire (because of the rake-off TFA gets) than traditionally certificated new teachers & are less effective. Most of them quit teaching within 3 years.
http://www.ncate.org/documents/EdNews/StanfordTeacherCertificationReport...
Education reform = an exercise in union-busting & deskilling.
Charter schools = a move toward total privatization of education.
The closest correlate of children's performance on standardized tests = parent's income & poverty. The US has the highest percent of children living in poverty in all the developed world.
The policies of the right are being continued & intensified by Democrats, two heads of the same ruling-class political beast.
The public isn't going to understand what's going on until it's too late. If you want to know your future, look to Mexico & Chile.
Oh, & local control of your schools?
Forget about it. Local control is going away. And if you think charters are the solution, your only point of "control" is to choose a different charter.
And already in Texas two charter management companies are planning monopoly positions.
The new model of education will be: publicly-funded prison schools for the poor, elite schools for the super-rich, & income-tiered schools for the majority, who'll have to compete for slots & scrimp & save to provide their children with any semblance of an education that will help them avoid a life of casual, low-wage labor.