Religious Leaders on Islam in America
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-08-16/religious-leaders-islam-america
Organizers of a planned Islamic center near Ground Zero say they want to repair the breach caused by the nine-eleven terrorist attacks. Opponents consider the location insensitive. Leaders of different religions discuss attitudes toward Islam in America.
Guests
Akbar Ahmed
chair of Islamic studies at American University, the first Distinguished Chair of Middle East and Islamic Studies at the U.S. Naval Academy, and former Pakistani high commissioner to the U.K. His latest book is "Journey into America."
Rabbi Bruce Lustig
Senior Rabbi of the Washington Hebrew Congregation
The Rt. Rev. John Chane
Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington
Dan Senor
Former Bush Administration foreign policy advisor, based in Iraq (2003, 2004)
Currently founding partner of Rosemont Capital, a global private equity firm; and Fox News Middle East Analyst
Barry Lynn
executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and author of "Piety & Politics" (Harmony Books)
Comments
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When somebody says they're "offended" -- it's subjective. Emotions are human and not totally logical.. For example, I cannot for the world understand why Muslims are "offended" by political cartoons portraying Muhammed -- to the degree that they will murder the cartoonist! I mean, it's true that Christians DO get offended when Jesus is made fun of, BUT christians then do not feel the right to go and kill the people offending!!
Let's be fair and equal in our reactions to "insensitivity"
Also, if Muslims are so fair, peaceable and loving, why couldn't a Christian church be built in Saudia Arabia?
When somebody says they're "offended" -- it's subjective. Emotions are human and not totally logical.. For example, I cannot for the world understand why Muslims are "offended" by political cartoons portraying Muhammed -- to the degree that they will murder the cartoonist! I mean, it's true that Christians DO get offended when Jesus is made fun of, BUT christians then do not feel the right to go and kill the people offending!!
Let's be fair and equal in our reactions to "insensitivity"
Also, if Muslims are so fair, peaceable and loving, why couldn't a Christian church be built in Saudia Arabia?
Any comments on Isaac and Ishmael?
Should we hold every Jew responsible for every statement in the Talmud or Christians for the Bible? Is the IDF destruction of centuries old Arab cemeteries an example of where this could go?
And I feel compelled to add:
To have the so-called religious leaders on your show lecture listeners about tolerance is deeply offensive.
Religious organizations are historically intolerant and have created foment throughout history.
One of the goals of the 911 terrorists was to promote fear, intolerance and hatred. Opposition to building the mosque near Ground Zero is exactly the type of reaction they were hoping for and they must be rejoicing to see their goals being fulfilled in this way.
I am a muslim convert whose ancestry in the USgoes back to the 1700s.
Our mosque in Frederick Md. Is not allowed to play the call to prayer outside, even for only the Friday noon service, while churchbells are abundant on Sunday.
I think muslims in the US have been more than sensitive.
To me, NOT allowing a mosque to be built is almost a judgment of the guilt of an entire faith, based on a maniacal fringe minority of the same.
from Hampstead, NH
What is missing from the rhetoric is the lack of decisive and clear denunciation from Muslim political leaders and clerics of the 9/11 and other anti-democrocy terrorist activity. Within Christian and Jewish circles, there is a substantive debate -- that the media is fairly good about covering (often to the extreme) -- but we do not hear Muslim leaders from Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Bangladesh and the United States (for that matter) denouncing the destruction of human life.
I support (although don't agree with) the construction of the Mosque, but where is the clear leadership on denouncing violence and encouraging peace.
Subliminally the reason American people are against this mosque is that Muslims imposed a one-way street when they demand freedom of religion to America but do not offer the same to other non-Muslims in their countries If Americans can build Christian churches next to the Qaba, I don't perceive a problem with this mosque being built next to the former Twin Towers.
Every religion has extremists to their credit. Hitler was Christian, was he not? Timothy McVeigh?
Muslims, Hindis, etc. It's the people who are misinterpreting the precepts of a religion that are violent.
Excuse me, Rabbi. I am (very) Jewish, and I take issue with your statement that Judaism does not have a dark side. How about those ultra orthodox who throw stones at those who don't observe shabbos? How about the ultra orthodox who are FOR ignoring the Palestinians' need for a homeland (or worse, for the destruction of the Palestinian people), without a second thought? I think it was the dark side of our religion that caused the death of our chaver, Rabin.
I think putting yourself and your religion ABOVE others will do more damage to your efforts to bring us together and create an atmostphere of tolerance.
I hope your efforts are successful. shalom.
-Stacey Deerfield Beach, Florida
P.S. re my earlier comment about the absence of women on the panel. Just to be clear: I am totally in support of locating the mosque on its chosen site near Ground Zero, and of Mayor Bloomberg's comments. I would just like to hear women on a panel of clerics.
I cannot help noticing the selective use of the Religious dogmas.
Muslims who use the Koran to justify violence, and Christians who choose NOT to "turn the other cheek" and "love their neighbor"
I admit my terminology is a bit simplistic and while I'm not talking about "invasion" in the traditional historical sense the end result is the same: one culture subsuming another through force of numbers as is clearly evident in France. Your summation and comparison of America and Europe is essentially sound with one exception. Although the US imported its labor from all over the globe, those people chose to assimilate to levels sufficient to coexist with those around them. These days the labor coming from South of the border is proving to be an exception to significant degree but I don't see even that situation leading to riots in the suburbs where even the police fear to go (France) or film makers being stabbed to death (Holland). In Europe, if you go country by country, there are similar stories of refusal to assimilate that ultimately lead to conflicts like these.
I hold out hope that what's left of the American dream could lead any people that choose to come here to try and fit in but having witnessed first hand what is happening across Europe I remain apprehensive.
bo,
Saudia Arabia is not the US and does not have religious freedom as one of its tenets of its constitution.
Christian and other places of worship are not built in muslim countries because they are not blessed with a constitution and religious freedom like we are. Would you prefer we adopt the same governmental structure as Saudi? We would have to pick a faith and allow only that. You should be thankful that we CAN build a mosque, or a church or temple, rather than be upset that another country cannot.
Your guest just said, "Muslims need to educate non-Muslims more, or that non Mulims need to learn more about Islam..
I used to be much more tolerant about thinking all religions deserve respect ---- UNTIL I learned what Islam believes. to cite only one thing: Sharia law (So much more...)
Timothy McVeigh was raised in the Catholic church and attended Mass (although I think he later claimed to be Atheist). But the point is... would our country be so upset and divided for a Cathedral to be built near the site of the Oklahoma City bombing?
I do not understand how the American public does not seem to grasp that NOT all Muslims support or condone violence. Not all Muslims bomb buildings, just like not all Christians bomb abortion clinics. Not every German was a Nazi and not everyone from Japan bombed Pearl Harbor (yet that is how we treated Japanese US Citizens during and after WWII).
This emotional response appears to stem from a lack of understanding about the Muslim faith. We are generalizing the acts and beliefs of a small extremist minority to an entire religion. It is as ridiculous as saying the Religious Right represents the view of ALL Christians.
This is a sad statement on the ignorance of American Christians. The Christian Church has a long violent and bloody history. Christianity had the same attitudes towards women and nonbelievers, that we see in the some Islamic dogma. Islam is a younger religion than Christianity so the attitudes have not matured and progressed to the same point. Let us stop this hypocrisy.
This argument against the mosque is a slippery slope to a lost of freedom for a targeted group of people. Who will decide what site is the right location for this center and place of worship- 4 blocks, 4 miles, 400 miles? Should there be separate but equal neighborhoods for Muslims?
Diane - your last comment is insane! Implying that Tim. McVeigh was a Christian, and that any of his motivation was religious. (It was anti-government, but that's another issue.)
The big point here is that 9-11 WAS inspired by the terrorists taking certain verses out of the Koran literally.
Do you not see the difference??
Islam DOES inspire the terrorists! Demonstrate that it does not. And don't say, "but most Muslims are peaceable." When it comes to terrorists, the peaceable Muslims are IRRELEVANT!
The point is it only takes a few thousand radical terrorists who get inspired by religious reasons to wreak disaster upon the "Infidels"!
Two points: 1) The idea of this particular Mosque being too close to Ground Zero is purely subjective. If 2 blocks is too close, what's otherwise acceptable? 4 blocks? 6... 8... 12... 24? Who determines "far enough"? The Constitution is clear: “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” It doesn't state freedom of religion within the context of what’s comfortable for a particular segment of society or the majority. 2) If we must acknowledge there are dark forces of Islam, mustn't we also acknowledge dark forces of Christianity (consider abortion clinic bombings; recall the Crusades)? Who’s to say arguments being used to object to a Mosque can’t or shouldn’t be used against a Christian place of worship in the future? If arguments against this Mosque and others across the country are deemed acceptable and applicable, similar standards must be applied to all faith traditions in New York and across the country.
Thanks for exposing Dan Senor. His arguments were political, divisive and specious. By extension, thanks for exposing the Council on Foreign Relations. Any organization that hires Senor in such a visible position is certainly suspect.
Wouldn't it be a different conversation if this mosque was labelled a worship center for Muslims who wanted to CONDEMN the terrorist actions ?
Instead of "Mosque at the site of the attacks", how about a worship centerfor "Muslims against terrorism" ?
I think that would be a lot more palatable as a function for this site. It would also help have the conversations that proponents claim are necessary - to separate Islam from terrorism. To separate Muslims from terrorists.
Sure, but would you try to build a church right next to the bombed abortion clinics ? I think that it is indeed something that deserves equal sensitivity no matter what the religion.
See my comment three below yours. What makes sense to me is to establish a center to HIGHLIGHT why Islam is AGAINST terrorism (if possible to do this), and to create a place where Muslims can gather to CONDEMN the actions of terrorists. Now that would be useful for the world and for Islam.
> stem from a lack of understanding about the Muslim faith
If that is so that establish a center to teach Islam to non-Muslims. To show "us" why Islam does NOT support or condone violence.
Yep, I agree with your thoughts entirely. I believe that this mosque would serve a better purpose if it were intended to educate people on exactly what you say - that Islam denounces violence and encourages peace. Assuming that the religion and its leaders can actually do this definitively, I think that there is a strong case to have such an education center at Ground Zero.
Bo, as a muslim, I know what Islam teaches. Like ALL religious texts, the Quran can be interpreted in a number of ways. The faults are not with the various religious texts, which come from GOD (whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim) but with the interpretations made by HUMANS, who are fallible.
We are having this conversation because although we have equal rights, we shouldn't exercise an equal right to be insensitive or an equal right to be purposely provocative.
Words, religions and faiths have associations. Right now Islam is associated with the deaths that occurred at Ground Zero. If that association must be broken there are a variety of ways to do it. This mosque is NOT assured to break that association, indeed there is an argument that suggests that it will REINFORCE the association.
Given that the association exists (right or wrong), then we must be careful in what rights we exercise. Just like saying that we all have equal right to use the word "Ni**er". Of course we have the "right" to use any word we like, but it would be poor judgement to use such a word, given the associations it currently has.
A very insightful comment. Is there also a flight training school right next to the porn shop, the sex toy shop and the bookie operation within striking distance from Ground Zero ? If there were, would there by an outcry against the flight training school's location as well ?