The Debate Over Immigration and Birthright Citizenship
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-08-04/debate-over-immigration-and-birthright-citizenship
Some conservative lawmakers have suggested eliminating automatic citizenship for children of illegal immigrants. We take a look at the implications of increasing political pressure for new immigration laws.
Guests
Rosemary Jenks
director of government relations, NumbersUSA.
Angela Kelley
vice president for immigration policy and advocacy, Center for American Progress.
Julia Preston
national immigration correspondent for The New York Times.
Mark Krikorian
executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
Comments
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50 states 50 different laws in not the answer, the ferderal goverment has to step up to the plate an deal with this once and for all. I'm for immigration reform, it is sad to see familys being separated.
We all want to reduce poverty, right? If so, why do we keep importing it?
Once again the GOP will stir emotions before an election while calling for a constitutional amendment that they know will never be passed.
First, let's be real and honest -- illegals, for years, intentionally sneaked in had "anchor babies" in order to eventually be considered "legal". That takes advantage of a sort of a "loophole" in our laws, and now America must deal with this unfortunate issue.
Although I feel sorry for the "anchor babies" because it's not THEIR fault, I feel just as sorry for legal Americans who have to deal with this situation. ("Dealing" means that PAYING for this mess, at a time when our economy is in the toilet and we do NOT have the money!)
I came here via legal permanent resident status (green card) after waiting for 8-10 years of applicaton process. And I, like most Americans, believe things should be done in the RIGHT Way, the legal way.
First, secure the border, stop all illegal aliens.
Second, stop the anchor babies.
Then we can talk about immigration reform.
And stop the term "illegal immigrations" , it is an oximoron, Illegal is illega, and it is a criminal act that should be charged and prosecuted.
Enough is enough.
this has nothing to do with one party or another. Most Americans agree with changing this amendment that has been abused for years.
Two questions:
-- If illegal immigrants are not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" when it comes to U.S. laws, then what legal justification would U.S. police have for arresting and deporting illegal immigrants?
-- If Republicans and tea partiers are serious about wanting to govern only according to the actual text of the U.S. Constitution and deny that the Constitution is a living document, how can they propose altering the literal reading of the 14th Amendment or amending the Constitution with straight faces?
i was born in england, my mother was irish -- irish citizenship, my father american -- american citizenship, luckily england granted me citizenship at birth, and luckily my father registered me for US citizenship, or i wouldn't have citizenship anywhere -- the US supreme court has judged that US citizenship is automatically passed thru the mother, NOT the father -- so that the US military does NOT have to take responsibility for all the children our soldiers leave behind (ie Vietnam!) -- the case in question was a US soldier who had brought his son to the states and raised him here, and then the child/now an adult committed a felony and was to be deported
The most laughable thing is that our federal government is suing Arizona for the law that mirrors the federal law. If only our politicians stop playing politics and try to secure their voting blocks, actually securing the border, then I'll take the government seriously.
There are several problems with this conversation beginning with the idea that all individuals who are now in the US without documents, "entered illegally." Almost half of these undocumented individuals actually entered with visas of some kind and overstayed their allotted time. They are not only field workers but students, tourists, and skilled workers.
A more serious problem has to do with the perception that undocumented immigrants are traveling to the US to have children. Most children of immigrants are from mixed status families, which means at least one parent is a US citizen.
It is chilling to think that we would even entertain the idea of limiting citizenship for only those we deem valuable. Such a concept skirts the limits of fascism.
forgot: if i want irish citizenship i have to apply for it -- neither the irish nor the american AUTOMATICALLY granted citizenship on me
A generous immigration policy? Have you actually had to deal with the USCIS (and the leftover junk from the INS)?! Clearly, not. Because anyone who's dealt with the legal channels of immigration in this country would not phrase it that way. We may have a great immigration policy on paper. But it's so incredibly complicated and lengthy I'm not surprised people try to get around it.
And yes, I immigrated legally. I know what I'm talking about.
A speaker earlier said that she did not know of any countries which did not allow the children of citizens to also be automatic citizens of that country. There are some major caveats to this. Japan, for example will not give automatic citizenship if the birth is not registered to the Japanese government with 3 months of the birth. The child after this point will NOT be a citizen of the country but has the ability to become a citizen by naturalization. I suspect many countries have laws such as this.
Is it not true that the trade policies that the U.S. has with countries like Mexico is part of what reduces the work opportunity in those countries, hence pushing immigrants to the work opportunity presented in the U.S.? Why is this not discussed in the immigration debate? If we're wanting to pay dirt cheap prices for goods in discount stores, someone has to be paid dirt low wages in the countries that produce them. When you're getting paid less than $1/day in your home country, $3/hour in America starts to look a lot like heaven. If we had fairer trade policies and were willing to pay fairer prices for goods, the economies of those countries we trade with would grow, and many people would be more than pleased to stay in their home countries. Is my logic flawed?
The USA is the 5th country I have had permanent residency in, during my working career. I can say without any doubt that this is most difficult and most expensive country to gain legal residency in.
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Although there is a comment that people who over stayed their visas make up the most illegals, those people are those who most impact American workers. Most people who come here from Hispanic countries are not as well educated. I think the Immigration laws need to be reviewed and revised to stop students from other countries from staying here and many do have children in order to stay!
Children of any illegal status should be granted the state status of their mothers automatically. Then they should be deported with their parents. In addition, anyone who does violate the law over staying their visa should be barred just as those who cross the border on our Southern borders from EVER coming back. If there is no teeth in the laws, then people will keep coming and overstaying!
This should NOT be an issue of pandering to any one race including Hispanics; this should be equally true for anyone from Asia, especially Indians who take the largest proportion of upper pay level jobs from US citizens!
If the laws were such that no one born here could be a citizen unless one of the parents was a citizen, then a lot of the student and visitor stay over would end; especially if those are prosecuted swiftly and resulted in immediate deportation. I bet there are people who would volunteer to drive people to the airport or nearest border!
The Lindsay Graham suggestion reflects the thoughts of people who came here and founded this country and are tired of its laws being violated!
Your guest mentioned that most illegal immigrants come to the US for jobs. Why is there not a more serious focus on drying up the jobs? It seems that severe penalties for hiring illegals and an national database of people elligible for legal hiring would do a great deal to curtail illegal migration.
Bill71
Davidsonville MD
This is a serious issue for American citizens out of work. Don't look at the people crossing the borders in the West. Look at the effects of Mosaic immigration on the www.fairus.org site.
Anchor babies are taking advantage of the loophole in the law!
The discussion of "birthright citizenship" is just the age-old debate about jus soli versus jus sanguinis. Jus solis in the US was definitively decided by the Supreme Court in the Plyler v. Doe case. To change this would require a Constitutional Amendment process. Jus solis is observed in 16% of the countries in the world. The other 84% observe the German concept of jus sanguinis which has an extremely complex history clouded by subjective discrimination. International conventions like the International Convention on the Rights of the Child clarify how conflicts between jus sanguinis and jus soli works to protect children. The challenge is harmonization with international practice, not go-it-alone US congressional action.
Denying birth right opens up a Pandoras box. What if one parent is a citizen and the other is not. Especially when the process of citizenship takes years, you cannot punnish people for this. What if a woman is raped. What if Parents divorce. It cannot be changed and be Constitutional, you cannot morally fit all situations into this debate.
If it was decided that the children of 'illegal immigrants' are US citizens, how many generations of children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren's US citizenship would be void? It would be interesting to find if the majority of US citizens one, two, three or four generations relatives were here illegally and how many of our political leaders would be included in this group?
This issue is being driven by fear not reality. This is political in origin and feeding on people's fears and prejudices. This issue reminds me of the Republicans getting the Southern white vote by playing the race code. Now, they're using the immigration card to gain votes. At a time when we need to solve problems, they're avoiding real solutions by utilizing immigrants as a scapegoat.
If it was decided that the children of 'illegal immigrants' are US citizens, how many generations of children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren's US citizenship would be void? It would be interesting to find if the majority of US citizens one, two, three or four generations relatives were here illegally and how many of our political leaders would be included in this group?
This issue is being driven by fear not reality. This is political in origin and feeding on people's fears and prejudices. This issue reminds me of the Republicans getting the Southern white vote by playing the race code. Now, they're using the immigration card to gain votes. At a time when we need to solve problems, they're avoiding real solutions by utilizing immigrants as a scapegoat.
The sad thing is that whenever there's a different voice from the liberal feel-good, it is automatically being perceived as racism. A law is a law, if you break a law, then you are a criminal.
Did I hear the gentleman say that pregnant women should not be admitted to the US. Is he kidding?
This is an ongoing problem. Can't the show find more legitimate panelists than people like Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS)? As reported by the Southern Poverty Law Center...
"CIS was started in 1985 by a Michigan ophthalmologist named John Tanton — a man known for his racist statements about Latinos, his decades-long flirtation with white nationalists and Holocaust deniers, and his publication of ugly racist materials. CIS' creation was part of a carefully thought-out strategy aimed at creating a set of complementary institutions to cultivate the nativist cause — groups including the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) and NumbersUSA. CIS was started in 1985 by a Michigan ophthalmologist named John Tanton — a man known for his racist statements about Latinos, his decades-long flirtation with white nationalists and Holocaust deniers, and his publication of ugly racist materials. CIS' creation was part of a carefully thought-out strategy aimed at creating a set of complementary institutions to cultivate the nativist cause — groups including the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) and NumbersUSA."
Are there no more rational spokespersons to be found in Washington to represent the conservative point of view?
What about the thousands of illegal aliens that have children in the USA that go back to their Country and collect welfare checks for their children? Is anybody else in Government aware of this?
But, apparently, illegal immigrant are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. So how are you going to charge any immigrants with any violations of law?
Best way to stop illegal immigration is to have the unemployed citizens perform the jobs that 12 million illegal immigrants performed.
Illegal immigrants risk their lives crossing the borders. They just want to work to survive.
I hope this show's discussion clears up the "anchor baby" myth.
Denying a child citizenship when he or she is born here is wrong. If a child born here isn't an American, who is?
Applying this ridiculous law to "only" illegal immigrants is a very short step from denying it to any immigrant.