Donald Miller: "Father Fiction"
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-06-17/donald-miller-father-fiction
About 27 million American boys are being raised without a father in the house. One man's experience growing up fatherless and his efforts to help boys facing similar challenges.
Guests
Donald Miller
best-selling author of "Blue Like Jazz"; serves on President Obama's Task Force on Fatherhood and Healthy Families; founder of The Mentoring Project for fatherless boys.
Comments
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The author's opening comments portend that the absent father he imagines is indeed a fiction. My brother and I had an in-home father. His duty, performed impeccably, was to bring home the bacon. It wasn't to teach my brother how to tie a tie or teach me how to talk to boys or help my mother change diapers. Fathers (and mothers) can be absent in many ways in addition to physical absence. Like the author's mother, my mother was a wonder. As happens all over the world, it's primarily mothers who raise children. I hope that the statistics on physically absent fathers don't lead us to further fictionalize (idealize) fathers.
It seems to me that the author is looking for someone to blame and not having anyone to blame has decided that his bad choices and behaviour are due to a lack of a male role model. In a more primitive model, this cave child would have snuck into the bear cave to paly with the bones not because there was no cave dad, but because he has bad wiring. As a product of divorce, I have never broken into a person's house, stolen anything or for that matter intentionally lied. The other day I helped an old man change a flat tire and no one ever told me I had to: I made the decision as a person to do right from a young age...
The idea that the fact that 85% of men in prison were raised in homes without fathers means that the fact there was no father there CAUSED the behavior that led those men to be imprisoned is not compelling. A basic tenet of statistical modelling is that correlation does not mean causation. Yes, you have identified a correlation, but socio-economic status or any other number of things would need to be weeded out (by some more sophisticated tools than have evidently been used: analysis of variance?) before you can say that.
And don't get me started on the nonsense about elephants. How about the other multitudes of large mammals that are raised by mother animals only? These animal examples... A) don't apply and B) tend to be used as they appeal rather than as they might actually compare.
This guy sounds like he had a sad childhood. He sounds like he was a total mess. I'm happy he's better. However, I question why this dude is getting a forum, given that the 'science' if any, is spurious at best? Are you obligated to cover something about dads b/c it's Father's Day on Sunday?
You could do better.
Dear Diane,
I want to mention that we are forgetting about girls growing up without Dads. Perhaps the percentages are not there for women who grew up without Fathers ending up in prison, however, girls are deeply affected as well.
We did not get to learn the rules of a mans world from our Father's as well and that creates plenty of pain in a young woman's life.
I know my Father died of cancer when I was six.
Thanks,
Sherrie
Diane, thank you so much for this show. It seems that we never fail to celebrate Mother's Day, and Father's Day often passes with very little fanfare--except maybe a commercial advertising a sale at the hardware store. This show reminds us that fathers do matter--which is not a slight against single mothers, contrary to some people's reaction.
Sincerely,
Chagea
--a mother
My parents divorced when I was 11 years old, and as a young girl, I felt that I never really could reach my father on a real level. Alot of what you are talking about is in reference to boys, but I relate to many of these issues.
My mother was overwhelmed and bitterly hurt by the divorce, and shared that with me daily. She shared that experience of mistrust so fully with me, that even now, at age 34, I have difficulty trusting men in my life. My father is a nice person, but almost a distant and painful memory to me.
I hope that you can address how father's are important in daughters lives, and how a good relationship with fathers for either sex of child can help them create positive self-images and sucess in future relationships.
Thank you, and I love listening to your show Diane!
APR
Charlotte NC
I am in the army and have deployed several tmies since my son was born. I often worry about the effects my abscence may have on him. Are their any studies or understanding about the effects that occur as a result of fathers in my situation?
I know a lovely little boy being raised by two loving men. Where do gay families fit into the author's framework?
Is it any worse not to have a father than to have one in the home that takes no part in the child's life. My father was in the home my whole life, but he took no part in my life except to punish me (with a coat hanger). He never spoke to me except to correct my speech, tell me what to do, or tell me that something I was doing was wrong. He took me to 2 ballgames in my first 18 years. He never went to a ballgame, or did anything else with me. He cared about his work and his health. Nothing else. He improve latter in life and did a lot for me financially but we were never close, and I have never forgiven him.
I know growing up without a Father is a problem for so many young boys, but I grew up without one and as a woman, I know I spent years 'looking' for him in my relationships.
For the first time ever, I've turned off the radio in disgust while listening to The Diane Rehm Show. I found Mr. Miller's reasoning to be lacking and his excuses to be downright annoying. When he claimed again that he broke into houses because he didn't know it was wrong at the time, I realized that it was time to stop listening.
This is a tough topic for me and my brother. We were raised in the typical 1950’s upper middle class family… 5 kids, good Catholics, etc. …right off one of those magazine covers back then. Our father made himself absent, even when he was at home. We cannot remember any conversations with him. Growing-up, at camp, during the summers, I would drill one of my friends to tell me what he did with his father and what exactly his father said to him, because his father always took him and his brother camping. And my friend did; he’d show me how his father taught him to do the stuff one needs to know when you’re out camping. My friend was very generous in this; about an hour a week he’d tell me about his father.At school, every day, I’d ask to read the daybook of classmate because his father would write notes in the book. Then, I’d copy his father’s notes into mine. Thinking about it now, it must have been obvious to others. One of my instructors would have me stay after school on Friday’s while he graded papers… He’d have me do my homework, then he’d check my work, make corrections, etc., then send me off. This for three years, six years of correspondence while I was at university. When he passed away, not too long ago, I was inconsolable. I’ll be 60 years old soon.
Dear Diane,
Thank you so much for the topic and your guest today. This resonates deeply with me. I am a 43 year old man with a younger sister and brother. My parents divorced when I was 12, my sister 10 and my brother 4. Even when my parents were married my father wasn't there emotionally before he was absent physically. For 30 years I have experienced and watched the ebb and flow of anger and forgiveness, difficulty of forming relationships and journey to self awareness for myself and my siblings and can tell you with absolute certainty how big an impact his abscence had on my life. Thank you for the discussion it means more than you can know.
Tom Lewis
Cleveland, OH
My kids, one girl one boy, grew up without their dad. He chose to absent himself from their lives for reasons of his own. I worked full time, often 2 jobs, and put myself through college while I raised them without assistance. I was the parent at the emergency room, the teacher meetings, the school performances. Results have been good. Though they grew up without the financial security provided by 2 working parents they have done well for themselves. My daughter is heading off to a major ivy league university to complete her second masters, fully funded by the institution. After that it will be Phd work. She has just wrapped up two years of teaching philosophy at a Texas university. My son, the younger of the two, is a success in his own right, having recently lauched his own business. They tried to form a relationship with their dad, with my encouragement and that of his parents. He responded by cutting the ties again. If the kids were at his parents for a family event like the holidays he wouldn't show up. When he was dying of cancer it was my kids that donated blood, spent hours by his bedside despite being ignored most of their lives by this man who was not much more then a sperm donor, by his own choice. I am proud of the job that I've done and proud of my kids. They are good people, with a sense of responsibility and a good work ethic. They are kind, honost and even forgave their dad. He managed to slight them one more time by leaving everything to his 3rd wife and her daughter, no relation at all. My daughter struggled to come up with funding for school while his step daughter gets it paid for, courtesy of his estate and the social security that she will receive for another 4 years. I rather doubt that my kids would be so driven and successful if they had grown up with a disconnected, self-centered father who seemed contemptous of their very existance. When dad skips out its up to mom to fill both roles. Its hard, but you have to do it.
My kids, one girl one boy, grew up without their dad. He chose to absent himself from their lives for reasons of his own. I worked full time, often 2 jobs, and put myself through college while I raised them without assistance. I was the parent at the emergency room, the teacher meetings, the school performances. Results have been good. Though they grew up without the financial security provided by 2 working parents they have done well for themselves. My daughter is heading off to a major ivy league university to complete her second masters, fully funded by the institution. After that it will be Phd work. She has just wrapped up two years of teaching philosophy at a Texas university. My son, the younger of the two, is a success in his own right, having recently lauched his own business. They tried to form a relationship with their dad, with my encouragement and that of his parents. He responded by cutting the ties again. If the kids were at his parents for a family event like the holidays he wouldn't show up. When he was dying of cancer it was my kids that donated blood, spent hours by his bedside despite being ignored most of their lives by this man who was not much more then a sperm donor, by his own choice. I am proud of the job that I've done and proud of my kids. They are good people, with a sense of responsibility and a good work ethic. They are kind, honost and even forgave their dad. He managed to slight them one more time by leaving everything to his 3rd wife and her daughter, no relation at all. My daughter struggled to come up with funding for school while his step daughter gets it paid for, courtesy of his estate and the social security that she will receive for another 4 years. I rather doubt that my kids would be so driven and successful if they had grown up with a disconnected, self-centered father who seemed contemptous of their very existance. When dad skips out its up to mom to fill both roles. Its hard, but you have to do it.
the guest has danced around criticism regarding taking responsibility for his burglaries as a child.
i want to hear him say, " i knew it was wrong". not, "it wasn't until, as an adult i wrote an article .....".
own your crimes. you had to know it was wrong or else you would have simply walked in when the people were home and could see you.
Having had my e-mail read on air (thank you) I was not surprised to find that it had been edited, nor am I offened in the least. The comment on the primitive nature of the human condition and the results of bad decision making was phrased in a way that was perhaps abrasive, but the core idea is sound. In today's society there is little threat of instantaineous Darwinistic consequence to flawed thought and action. What once could result in death during childhood now hardly ever applies and as a result, those with flawed social, physical and intellectual reasoning and interactions are able to pass on their genetics and learned behaviours to future generations. I am not implying nor do I condone the ignorant concepts of eugenics, rather my comment was meant as a possible explanation of why the author (and millions of others world wide) was unable to connect with social responsibility as a child, why he needs religion in his life to point him in a socially responsible direction and perhaps even why his father and his mother were unable to form a lasting pair bond or to see past their differences for the sake of their children. My note was brief since I was in a bit of a rush to get to class.
Thanks for the show; it gave me new ideas about how to address this problem in our 4-day jail intensive seminar (Freedom 101) which begins again tonight. SO many of the men in jail/prison want to assume their kids are better off NOT knowing them; Dan's statement about THEM needing to take the "father" leadership role to pursue their kids relentlessly, letting them know they DO care about them unconditionally and that they ARE worth the trouble, is priceless. It is their JOB to do this! (Obvious to good fathers, probably; not so much for the clueless ones!)
Not being a father myself, this guidance about where to take them in planning for their successful re-entry ahead of time is very helpful. Indeed, we have been teaching them already that they need to begin to develop a relationship with their kids now - reaching out from behind bars to let their kids know they are in their thoughts - is SO important (no matter how unworthy they may personally feel right now - the healing of which is a main focal point of the seminar, so we get to that also!)
Thanks
dbulleit@freedom101trainings.org
I'm just now listening to the podcast from yesterday and once again am so impressed and personally touched by the content of this show!
I grew up with the best father in the world, but only for a short time since he died of cancer at the age of 39. I have both felt the joy and security of a strong and loving father figure, and also felt the intense grief and pain of loosing/missing this. All that being true, I totally agree with the author that without these experiences my life would not be nearly as rich and blessed as it is today.
Thanks again.
I am so glad to be able to join such a feed, i am 35 yrs old and have a 16yr old daughter. The mother and I seperated when my daughter was 4 months old, i chose to be an active part of my daughters life. My daughter techniquely has lived with her mother but has spent 6 out of 7 days with me for the past 16 yrs. i have always aspired to become a better father everyday. The one big problem that have found myself in is that as my daughter got older her mother seemed to become more resentful of her life and distance herself from my daughter emotionally. My daughter has seen and felt that emotional distance. My daughter has left her mothers house on at least 2 different ocassions, my daughter doesnt want to come to live with me( I recently Got married and moved 45mins away) but she feels that her and her mother do not respect each other, because her mother does admit to saying hurtful things. mY concern is how this is going to affect my daughter in this stage of her life and how she is allowing it to affect her education and other things.
I really enjoyed reading the blog of the 2 kids who turned out well after their father continued to reject and resent them... i want to see my daughter reach all of her potential, but i want her to see it for herself how some actions she has taken are detrimental to her life.. please comment look forward to hearing input,
thanks