Turkey, the U.S. and Israel
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-06-08/turkey-us-and-israel
The new complications in U.S.-Turkish relations pose another challenge for the Obama administration's security team, including National Security Adviser Gen. Jim Jones, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Pete Souza/Official White House Photo via Flickr
Turkey's ambassador to the U.S. calls for an end to the Israeli blockade of Gaza and says Israel owes an apology to the Turkish nation. Strained relations between Turkey and Israel. Implications for the U.S. and stability in the Mideast.
Guests
Omer Taspinar
professor, national security strategy, U.S. National War College
director of the Turkey project, Brookings Institution
James Kitfield
senior correspondent for National Journal.
Steven Cook
Hasib J. Sabbagh senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies,
Council on Foreign Relations
Comments
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Does the Turkish government deserve critisism for letting these ships leaving thier ports knowing this altercation was likely?
Diane,
Please ask your guest James to explain what is so obvious about Israel not accepting a UN lead investigation? Israel is the accused here, How come an accused gets to lead the investigation? that is not to say they should not have people in the committee, but they , according to the journalists on board, are the ones who destroyed all the evidence, sd mem cards, cameras, cell phones. How does the US let some absurd case go along like this in the international arena? What are the comments of your other guests in this subject?
Thank You
ASIM
Whether the Free Gaza movement was provocative is irrelevant. Israel boarded a ship carrying humanitarian aid in International waters and killed at least 9 passengers in defense of an illegal blockade of Gaza.
Chocolate and cement in the hands of Gazans do not pose an existential threat to Israel. Israel believing itself the victim is ridiculous.
Gaza has held free and fair elections and has been supposedly de-occupied by Israel. Israel has absolutely no right to control Gaza's port or air space or to effectively imprison the people there.
Setting aside the opinions of countries not in agreement with Israel, if Turkey aided and abetted the flotilla to break Israel's blockade which, from Israel's perspective was necessary for its defense, why should Israel NOT consider Turkey's role to be a hostile act against Israel?
I don't think they were expecting the Israeli government sending their S-13 to kill 9 people (shot pointblank in most cases). Yes they probably thought israeli navy would stop the ships or redirect them - Israel already lets the humanitarian aid pass through their port but they hold 78% of the aid and only pass 22% according to International Red Cross and UN. one of the crucial elements they don't want passing is cement - they obviously want Palestanians out of there .
Everyone knows Palestanians are Greeks who chose Islam , right ? They are not actually arabs.
I am surprised, again, that the benefit of the doubt favors the "side" opposite to Israel. Many believe the Israelis owe the Turks an apology, but the Turks ignored and disrespected the defense policies of the Israelis. Shouldn't there be an apology for that action as well? I realize most people see the Israelis as the bully but I don't believe this perception is accurate or fair. Being surrounded by countries dedicated to your destruction could make one a bit testy and paranoid.
I have a modest proposal for the people who whine about the poor innocent Palestinians who are being mistreated by the mean old Israeli's (forgetting that Gaza's government, Hamas, has been continuously firing rockets into Israel - an act of war): end the blockade, let anything and everything flow into Gaza from all sides (well, maybe not from Israel itself). Then, when the next rocket attack comes, or the next gang of terrorists (sorry, "freedom fighters") attack or invade Israel, as the rest of the world "tut tuts" about that, Israel will do what any nation under attack would do. It will invade the attacker, destroy its government, and fully occupy and control its people. Hell, it might even decide to engage in a little "ethnic cleansing", and throw the Gazans into the sea. God knows, Israel's enemies have threatened to do that often enough!
No, I don't support or justify EVERYTHING the Likud government is doing. But I am sick and tired of people giving Hamas a "free pass". When Israel pulled out of Gaza, and let the people there chose their own government, this was Gaza's chance to prove it could live in peace with Israel. This was a test for Hamas, to see if it would devote its energies to helping its people, and make Gaza a viable community. The Gazans and Hamas failed that test miserably! How about considering that?
The discussion was interesting but I found one aspect of it very troubling. The constant discussion of Hamas vis a vis Israel made it seem as if Hamas had sponsored the flotilla -- when in fact it did not. I understand that your guests were looking at the impact of the flotilla incident on relations between Turkey, Israel, and Hamas and therefore the focus was on the state players in the conflict over the blockade. However, your guests failed to make it clear that Hamas did not organize the flotilla and did not control it. Thus a listener who did not know much about the topic could come away believing that Hamas was integrally involved. I was actually quite surprised that academics would be so sloppy as to how they framed the incident.
Your experts said that Israel should have waited for the flotilla to enter the Israeli waters, since that would have placed them in a much better position with respect to international law - this shows that they are not experts at all, especially not when it comes to law or enforcement.
Not only will I show that it is legal to do so in international waters, but that it had to happen in international water.
1) International law states clearly that a ship that shows intentions of breaking a blockade is considered "in attempt of breaking blockade" from the moment it left its port of origin. The law also says that the country enforcing the blockade can board the ship to stop it from entering the blockade and that that CAN be done in international waters. (see The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations, Navy publication NWP 1-14M, specifically sections 7.7.4 and 7.10, which refers to international law)
2) The "width" of territorial water is about 15 miles, that is a ridiculous distance, the ships in the flotilla easily cover this distance in under 30 minutes. The entire operation took more than that. Do you really expect Israel to take the risk that the whole incident will be carried onto the Gazan shore? Not to mention that Gazan civilians would have gotten involved. Also, the time-of-day must be taken into consideration. A military takeover of a ship's bridge is much less likely to involve "innocent bystanders" if done at 4:30am, rather than in the middle of the day - which would have been the time at which these ships would have arrived at Israel's territorial waters.
I'm also surprised that you were not discussing the fact that Hamas government is now not letting the aid into the Gaza strip. Israel loaded all the aid (except for the materials that it prohibits, such as cement) on trucks and sent it to the strip, and the Hamas won't accept it.
I am sick and tired of Israel apologetics who believe that Israel's right to defend itself trumps any other international law and UN resolutions, which Israel doesn't like including pretty much the right of people to breathe air...
Without massive US financial, military and political support that terrorist state would cease to exist within a year.
I certainly do not feel obligated to support a state which robs it's neighbours of everything: land, life, and human dignity for over 60 years now.
Let Iran take care of Israel ! The sooner the better.
The US has had a blockade on Cuba for over 40 years. Why isn't anyone complaining about that?
Who are the most powerful in the region?? Hamas or İsrael?? İsrael for sure. So I can say that İsrael is creating this disaster. İf they really like to choose this problem they do. And if İsrael really like to solve this problem Turkey may help them anytime. Howeever İsrael has a plan to capture all region. And their history affect their policies. But no body accepts killing nine innocent people for the sake of their paranoia.
Who are the most powerful in the region?? Hamas or İsrael?? İsrael for sure. So I can say that İsrael is creating this disaster. İf they really like to choose this problem they do. And if İsrael really like to solve this problem Turkey may help them anytime. Howeever İsrael has a plan to capture all region. And their history affect their policies. But no body accepts killing nine innocent people for the sake of their paranoia.
Excellent video of what has happened: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/10/exclusive_journalist_smuggles_out_...