The Politics and Possibilities of Immigration Reform
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-04-27/politics-and-possibilities-immigration-reform
People protest Arizona's tough new anti-immigration law outside the state's Capitol building, April 25 2010
Flickr user kevinbondelli
Arizona's tough new immigration law might force Democrats to push for an overhaul this year. A key Republican has vowed to withdraw his support for an energy bill if Congress gives priority to immigration legislation. A discussion of the politics and possibilities of immigration reform.
Guests
Angela Kelley
vice president for immigration policy and advocacy, Center for American Progress.
Laura Meckler
White House correspondent for The Wall Street Journal.
Mark Krikorian
executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
Comments
Please familiarize yourself with our Code of Conduct and Terms of Use before posting your comments.
When I read your comment I felt bad, not every immigrant is a drug dealer, robber or something like that. I agree, maybe we are not as easy as Americas, we are noisy some times and unfortunately not all of us are good people, but neither Americans. You will find good and bad people everywhere. Before you blame immigrants about your job you should consider the company or boss policies and what your skills are. I have been working legally for 2 years, and thanks God I still have a job even and I am pretty sure is because of my skills and attitude.
I hope for and everyone the best, because we human beings no matter what.
I arrived legally in the US in 1958 and became a citizen in '67. My last name and appearance would target me for the questioning by authorities as the new unconstitutional law in Arizona requires. Illegal immigration needs to be treated as any legal issue. However, are potential thieves or counter-fitters or even murderers profiled and questioned by police on the suspicion they may commit a crime? Seems like Arizona is taking a page from the abusive policies other countries have, or have had. Cuba has a law against 'suspicious conduct' and many in their jails are serving terms because of such persecution. Are we heading that way? How about wearing an arm band with a star? Or maybe even tattooing 'suspicious-looking' people on the forearm?
As a child of an immigrant and one who works with a large illegal immigrant population through her work, I am extremely worried about the long-term legal implications of this law. I believe it will breed hatred and racism, and institutionalizes modern Jim Crow laws.
That said, my father, a legal immigrant, and now a citizen, is very angry that so many people support that the illegal immigrant population, and that they feel they have a right to come and leave from the United States virtually unchecked. He did not have this luxury, as he emigrated from Guyana, a country which is not walking or driving distance from our borders.
I understand that people are angry on both sides, and completely understand that most illegal immigrants only want to make a better life for themselves and their families, but we do need to acknowledge that coming in to our country without authorization is a crime, and that by being here they are, in fact, criminals.
My family and I do not agree with this law, although we understand the sentiment behind it. We fully believe that our immigration policy needs to be reformed to make the process quicker and more streamlined, and that we need to allow for more visas to be given per year.
Also, many of the people I speak with are small business owners who use illegal immigrants for cheap labor. How is this right? Their support of illegal immigration is similar to that of France's support of the confederacy during the American Civil War, since the abolition of slavery would mean an increase in the price of cotton. These people do work incredibly hard, and deserve to earn a fair wage.
I disagree to some degree about putting the pressure on employers. If you want to grant some type of amnesty, allow the employers to choose their best employees and you will get those who are worth keeping.
I am a resident of Arizona, just 10 miles from the Mexican border. I do not agree with the new law, but it is readily apparent that the federal government has not done the job of protecting the border. The feds built an ugly metal wall (reminiscent of the Berlin wall) and spent millions (billions?) on a virtual electronic fence which doesn't work.
That aside, why is there no effort to implement a "guest worker" program like the one that has worked for decades in Germany?
--John
I am from Chandler, Arizona. During my day I interact with many independent and Republican voters, and I'm astonished at how many think this law:
1) Only applies to people who have committed a crime
2) That you only have to show a Drivers License to prove your citizenship if you are Anglo (or "white")
I have heard numerous people in the media claim that items 1 and 2 above are actually WRITTEN IN THE LAW. They are NOT. The law is online. I have read it.
I do not know about the legality or any of that part. I can only comment on alien status. My wife is a Canadian and was considered an alien until she got her citizenship last year.
Until she became a citizen she had to carry with her her alien card (green card, pink card, A card) If you are here on a Visa you must carry that with you to prove you are legal.
I have fun whenever I apply for any governmental stuff as I hold a foreign birth certificate. I was born in German and MY Birth Certificate was issued by the German Government, and my father was a US citizen and my mother was a German National. I do have a record of my birth being registered at the American Counselate in Germany which secures my US citizenship.
My Daughter also is in this boat as she was born in Canada and has a Canadian Birth Certificate, but in her case I secured a US passport for her once we got back to the states by proofing my US Citizenship.
It is not always proving your citizenship.
@Barb Kindle Forrest Could you further explain why you disagree? We have to keep in mind that employers are also breaking the law by not paying some of their employees at least minimum wage, which many do not.
Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is the exact same thing as calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist." They are breaking the law. Period. I can only imagine the rage felt by those from around the world that are jumping through the hoops to become Americans legally.
it's a sad state of affairs when people are called racists just because they want the law to be obeyed by everyone and they want to feel safe in their homes.
I am an immigrant; I came to Arizona from North Carolina eight years ago. When I arrived I thought the all the Hispanics here had immigrated from Mexico. It didn't take long until I realized this part of the country was originally settled by the Spanish. Duh!
There are no doubt others in the U.S. who are laboring under this misunderstanding. All brown skinned residents of Arizona are not here illegally. It is the ancestors of these original settlers who have a right to object to the new law, along with the legal immigrants from Mexico, and who will no doubt be subjected to racial profiling.
I wonder if your guests have heard about the American citizen who was detained by immigration in Arizona last week. He was stopped at a truck weighing station and had only his driver's license on him. ICE took him away in hand cuffs and made his wife come down town to bring his birth certificate before they released him. Do I now need to carry my birth certificate with me? Or do I only need to carry my birth certificate with me if my skin is brown and my last name Hispanic as his is.
Our Arizona politicians ignore the fact that CHILDREN will be severely affected by this law. Many children of immigrants are legal, while their parents may not be — a great deal of which have been in the system for years and years trying to obtain legal status. How many children will go without social and health services because their parents will fear deportation when seeking out such services? This law creates paralyzing fear in our Hispanic children and their families. It is abuse by our state to allow such disregard towards its youngest citizens.
I knew this day would come when white America would turn on us just like they did the Indians, Jews, and the blacks. Whites feel threatened when another race gets to close to their way of life but more importantly is when they want something that someone else has. Mexican Illegal's has always worked jobs that NO ONE wanted or NO ONE wanted to do like fast food, gardening, working in the fields and so on. You can name some jobs that you or someone you know wouldn’t do and laughed at us for doing them. Now that jobs are hard to find now you want them back. The problem isn’t that we are here illegally it’s because we have what you NOW want. Just like you blame Obama for your problems now you blame us. Republicans has everything screwed-up but you blame someone else. Whites just take, take, and take and break everything.
I have read that it costs Arizona $1.3 billion each year for illegals. Is is possible to send the bill to Mexico for providing education, healthcare and incarceration costs. It is reported that 17-18% of the illegal population have criminal records.
I am a professor at ASU with a green card, my accent is noticeable enough to "raise" suspicion of my "foreignness". I am in the process of being naturalized - what proof of citizenship am I expected to carry once I become a citizen? My accent will not go away after the swearing in ceremony. If I have to carry a proof of citizenship, why don't your guests on the show have to do the same? Most countries have some form of positive id ("identification card") proving their citizenship that EVERYONE has to carry. This goes against the accepted ethos of the US, which means that only people with accents, skin color, facial features, cultural customs etc. that mark them as "not from here" will have to go around with their passports or birth certificates. If this is not a discrimination based on ethnic background, I don't know what is discrimination.
Mr. Krikorian mischaracterizes several important terms contained in the new AZ law.
First, a "lawful contact" is simply anything that is not an unlawful contact. (An unlawful contact would include, e.g. a warrantless raid on one's home.) If a police officer strikes up a casual conversation with someone walking on the street, that is a lawful contact. So is a police interview of a victim or witness. According to this law, if any lawful contact ends up yielding "reas. susp." that a person may be in the US illegally, the officer is not only allowed to but is REQUIRED to investigate that person's immigration status.
Second, "reasonable suspicion" as defined by law is a very low threshold. An officer may develop "reas. susp." about a person based on one or more factors, including e.g. (see AZ/US Supreme Ct caselaw): the person makes eye contact with the officer, the person does not make eye contact, a driver is driving too fast, too slow, at the posted speed, etc.
Race, ethnicity, language, and even supposedly Mexican-looking clothing or haircut (see US v. Brignoni-Ponce, US Supreme Ct, 1975) are also factors which have been held to be legally permissible and relevant in developing RS. Race alone cannot be the single factor leading to RS - but race plus failing to make eye contact could be sufficient.
So under this new law, if a police officer is talking w/ a witness, a victim, or simply anyone walking down the street, and during that conversation the officer finds that the person is Hispanic, has a Mexican accent, and is wearing "Mexican-style clothing" (or any of a number of other factors), the officer can (and arguably, must) investigate that person's immigration status.
Some may say that's ridiculous; that the law won't be implemented this way. But this is what the law says; if it wasn't intended to be implemented this way, it shouldn't have been written this way. And in fact, if it is NOT implemented this way, citizens have the right to sue.
I'm proud to be an Arizonan, and I support the new law. Many of the commentators who oppose the law (who appear to be getting the lion's share of the air time, by a large margin) seem to focus on the buzz-phrase "Racial Profiling". Precious few ever get beyond it. There are some things I'm not sure everyone has realized. No-one can be stopped and questioned simply because they look Hispanic; there has to be previous "substantial contact with police". Effectively, this means in the vast majority of cases, the person questioned has to have broken the law. Also, the new law doesn't say that Hispanics have to carry ID, it says that ANYONE suspected of being an illegal immigrant must produce ID, so we ALL have to carry it--which shouldn't be an issue, because a valid AZ driver's license constitutes valid ID. We all carry our driver's license with us anyway, so where's the issue? The new law also quotes the federal illegal immigration statute verbatim, so anyone who opposes this law should also oppose the federal law it quotes--but I notice no one is saying that. Another fact which the Hispanic community at large seems to want us all to forget is that being here illegally IS A CRIME.
I believe most Arizonans will allow that this law may not be the best answer to the problem (which we are only dealing with because of massive failure -for decades- on the part of the federal government). But the days of simply ignoring the problem have come to an end, and the rest of you can thank Arizona for making immigration a front-burner issue. And if you don't have a better suggestion, and only want to shout "me, too!" at the top of your lungs, get in line with all the other useless pundits, we'll get to you (some day).
People please don't forget:
Most illegals use fake ss #'s and do pay taxes..... without getting the benefits.
Most Latinos coming here from southern Mexico and Central America come from extreme poverty, without any utilities including clean water. Think of the dangers they endure to cross the border just for the opportunity to come here and work in a fast food restaurant.
If they had work permits, they could compete legally for jobs instead of accepting wages way less than citizens are paid for the same jobs.
If they had work permits, they could get driver's licenses, car insurance and health insurance to the benefit of all of us.
They can't can't come here legally. We only accept immigrants who are well educated scientists or doctors.
Remember the plaque at the bottom of the statue: "...Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,........"
What has happened to our Christian values?
Bob
Great job Ashley87. Very well written.
The federal government has failed in dealing with unlawful immigrants because unlawful immigrants provide cheap labor and can't complain about unlawful working conditions -- capitalism at its worst.
There needs to be severe penalties for unlawful employers,
however,
There is a legal process for immigrating to the USA.
Many millions of people have, and are using the lawful process,
and are waiting years to come here lawfully.
For those here unlawfully, Lawful Guest Worker Cards -- yes;
Citizenship -- Never.
I am disappointed by how little support minorities in this country, especially African Americans, offer to immigrants regardless of where they come from. In combating racism, discrimination, u name it they often quote the founding fathers about all men being created equal. Now I don't hear them standing up us. It's as though Martin Luther King Jr. only targeted his speeches to African Americans. I understand the mob mentality which the US is experimenting right now and that explain the scapegoating going on as it has in the past. White America needs to understand that illegal immigrants were not speculating with their money, they did not buy homes they could not afford and did not build SUV even when gas prices were soaring, ignoring how the rest of the world was building more fuel efficient vehicles.
this is in response to Jan... did you read about what percentage of the convictions are related to their illegal status? ie drove without a license because they cannot obtain it...
The American Dream is being stolen by people who come here from other countries. I’m not talking about foreigners who work hard and study, who learn English, and who apply and wait years to enter this country. I’m talking about people in their 20’s or even in their teens who cross our borders years ahead of those waiting in line.
To make matters worse, these people aren’t taking minimum wage jobs mopping floors or picking tomatoes. The American Dream isn’t about doing back-breaking labor until your body fails. I’m talking about jobs that pay hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year … just because a person can knock a 98 mph fastball out of the park.
That’s right, I’m talking about baseball! The American Dream of playing America’s game professionally is being lived out by people from other countries. They are taking roster spots that could go to Americans. And, when these foreign players step up to the plate, folks in the stands actually cheer for them.
That doesn't seem right, does it?
i am my self an illegal.But know for sure that being illegal(overstay or cross the border without inspection) is is NOT crime or felony It is civil offenses something like DUI . It is another metter if person commited crime but simple overstay visas it is not a crime according law. Many Amercans don know this and demonizied us
Nonsense about claims we just have to let more immigrants in legally and it will help solve our immigration problems! Even with having more legal immigration within a reform package, illegals will still infiltrate and sneak in unless we get tough like AZ is doing with their new law. The reason is that there are millions + millions who want to get out of their 3rd world countries to come to America. Naturally we can't accommodate them all. Think about the lifeboat scenario: it can take on only so many till the whole boat goes down. America is becoming less of the world's lifeboat since America is going broke and has massive debt and lack of jobs for its own citizens. No one I know thinks we'll get out of this mess in the foreseeable future. Greece is most likely our future. Why shouldn't it be - we've embarked down the same path of debt/overspending/unions getting too powerful.
My family is planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico,
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
quotas and laws.
I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking
(bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and
history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles
at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and
lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access
to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to
purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10.. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car
has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S.. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals
on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have
any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely
nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the
strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
Well I'm a Christian and think what the Governor of AZ is doing if fantastic. She only enforcing the law that already exist.
And no it's not racial profiling. Just think about it what kind of people come from south of the boarder DUH espanicics so thats who who you check. If your here legally then you have nothing to worry about. If your in Mexico and you a white person and they stop and check your legality is that racial profiling? There the ones breaking the law so they brought on themselves. If I was president I would round up every ilegale and send them all back home and unless one of the parents is an American citizen then that baby that is born here it goes back with them. Then I would would put up notices anyone crossing into our country illeglllay will be shot at. This is America if you cant honor our laws then stay home. The Bible says obey the laws of the land so there. Maybe we should let the hells angles patrol the boarder.
That's the problem if your not a citizen and your baby is born here then that should not make it a citizen. Just because you cross into our country illegall and have your kid on our soil should not make that kid a citizen. That law needs to be changed.
Well I was born in this great country and if they want to give me a card showing a copy of my birth certificate Hey I'm fine with that. The ones that do all the screaming are the ones with something to hide. The fact is we have over 6 million ilegalls in this country and they need to be caught and accounted for then sent back where ever they came from wheather it be mexico or Africa or Germany. And we should close our boarders for 10 years. Who know what kind of terrorist groug is planning on comming across our boarder better be safe than sorry.
You got that right what would they do if the shoe was on the other foot.