The Politics and Possibilities of Immigration Reform
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-04-27/politics-and-possibilities-immigration-reform
People protest Arizona's tough new anti-immigration law outside the state's Capitol building, April 25 2010
Flickr user kevinbondelli
Arizona's tough new immigration law might force Democrats to push for an overhaul this year. A key Republican has vowed to withdraw his support for an energy bill if Congress gives priority to immigration legislation. A discussion of the politics and possibilities of immigration reform.
Guests
Angela Kelley
vice president for immigration policy and advocacy, Center for American Progress.
Laura Meckler
White House correspondent for The Wall Street Journal.
Mark Krikorian
executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
Comments
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I am proud of Arizona and he Governor for doing the right thing. I watched first hand as the illegals took away my job, medical, & educational opportunities, continuing to do so this very day under the guise of racial profiling. Countries like New Zealand have strict rules on immigration because their legal citizens come FIRST. Immigrants want to be a part of our country let them petition the legal way, otherwise go HOME. We don't need your slummy neighborhoods, disease, gangs, violence or your drugs! Petition your own country to take care of you...NOT MY JOB..or what I want my tax dollars to go for. America needs a first hand public vote on this one not some ill written proposal from Congress, the same morons that have sent our jobs overseas!
For vikki p and the others that view this as a brilliant law....you support this law which is clearly racial profiling is like supporting those laws passed by the nazi's against the jews, second how does an immigrant take your jobs like the ones you mentioned when they barely speak english and have no highschool or collage degree's so there not taking your jobs. Third how can you be happy to see families being separated. Do you go to church and worship god or the devil? Most immigrants or not criminals, I understand the frustration but this is not the way to solve this problem bad image for the United States!
What is never mentioned in the immigration debate, is that the current influx of immigrants is almost entirely a phenomenon for which America is responsible. America has been quite an irresponsible neighbor.
We have imposed free-trade on the Mexican people by enacting such policies as NAFTA (causing poverty to rise to 70% in Mexico). American corporations have basically had free reign in Mexico, polluting and draining resources . And now we want to kick the victims back to pay for it ,amazing ...
I have two questions about this legislation:
1) How would this law change unofficial racial profiling already present in most cities?
2) What exactly are the "signs" of an illegal immigrant that lawmakers say will be implemented to enforce this law, aside from the obvious use of race?
In January 2008 a law was passed in Arizona that employers would be sanctioned if they knowingly hired undocumented workers. (This was ALREADY in federal law from the 80's.) There have been a couple of slaps on the wrist, but I have never heard of a business being shut down or seriously fined. In fact, the majority of Arizona companies have not even registered for the free e-verify program to check the legality of their employees.
My contention remains that most people come here to work and U.S. employers love that cheap labor. So, if we REALLY want to address the problem of illegal immigrants, we should put more teeth in laws that pertain to employers. I have read the law and there is little in SB1070 that addresses this.
On our planet the human population is growing rapidly and the natural resources available to all of us are shrinking. It is important that the people of each nation and region receive empathy and periodic assistance from other peoples and nations.
Yet there is a simultaneous need for reasonable self protection. Allowing our population to grow without limit through the influx of immigrants is self destruction, in my opinion. Allowing ourselves to self-destruct does not indicate true courage or empathy. For as we self-destruct, we will strain the planet even more, and we will not be available to help other nations and peoples resolve their problems.
How is this law any different from the racial profiling that happens in airports for citizens of Muslim decent?
I applaud the Arizona state government for passing this strict immigration law.
If we do not turn back the tide of immigrants from Latin America and elsewhere, the USA will eventually be demographically swamped and large portions of the USA will come to resemble the 2nd/3rd world nations found in Latin America, Asia, Africa, etc.
Already in about 40-50 years native-born Caucasians are slated to drop below 50% of America's population: who can possibly think the USA will be a better place once that transition occurs? As yourself: would you rather live in the South American nation of Colombia or the U.S. state of Colorado? That is the difference -- if we don't turn back the immigrant tidal wave much of the USA will come to resemble Colombia, Venezuela, Central America, Mexico, etc.
Demographics are destiny. Be honest with yourself and others -- do you want to continue to live in a 1st world nation (the USA) or in a 2nd/3rd world type of nation which resembles a Latin American banana republic?
If I am stopped by the police through 'lawful contact' and asked for ID and I refuse I will be cited (more than likely arrested until my true identification can be determined so the citation can be applied to a confirmed individual).
There is a legal process to be in the USA, abide by the laws of this country... It is unfortunate there are millions who refuse to abide by the laws of this country and our government refuses to enforce the laws of this country.
(Cactus Flower News) Tree Grove, Arizona -- The Free Market Society has announced its intent to build a museum to honor illegal immigrants. "There is no group that upholds and exemplifies free market principles than those who would surmount so many barriers in order to participate in it" a spokesman said.
The museum will not only contain visual depictions and moving audio narratives of those who hazarded the difficult journey to work here, but will also highlight the companies that have managed to create the hidden pools of employment for illegal immigrants. "The obvious forces of supply and demand necessitate we honor these companies as well" the spokesman said. "Without them, there would be no illegal immigrants."
The name for the museum has already been chosen. "The Lou Dobbs Illegal Alien Museum" said the spokesman. "No one is more dedicated to free market principles than Mr Dobbs. Without the effects of these principles, there would be no illegal aliens. So the two really can't be separated."
A minor controversy erupted when one member of the board of directors stated that since illegal aliens are, well, illegal, the government should stop them from entering the country. This controversy was quickly dispelled when he was reminded that "any government involvement in the free market is, of course, socialism."
The museum will be located on the Arizona-Mexico border. It will have an onsite gift shop.
I am a Mexican American born and raised in the US.
It is one thing to expect that an alien is carrying papers but an entirely different thing to require that I do. If I make a left turn with out my signal and the police take me to jail, I will sue for profiling - So would you.
How many of your guests carry papers - because if I were a cop, what would prevent me from thinking they were here illegally from Canada?
Gabriel Quintero Velasquez
Vice President
Cesar Chavez March for Justice Committee
San Antonio, Texas
I do believe that although this law wasn't trying to be racist, it will turn racist because most police will not be asking white individuals or white looking individuals (i.e. Spanish, French, etc.) for their proof of citizenship.
I am unclear on what our federal immigration policy is -- it is rarely outlined --what happens when someone applies for citizenship, and how many applicants are able to receive green cards per year?
Also, it seems really important to know exactly what proof of US citizenship is needed if questioned in Arizona. Isn't a driver's license issued by a US state proof of citizenship?
One of the biggest reason immigrants have come to America is for JOBS, provided illegally by American companies. The ilegals haven't stolen your job, it was taken by your company who gave it to someone willing to work for less money. Going after individual immigrants only floods the system with detainees and deportation is expensive and time consuming. What about dealing with the companies who profit from this?
We can never secure the border 100% - there will always be illegal immigrants. But if we enforce existing employment laws, create new policy to deal with workers who are here already (get them some type of identification and get them earning comparable wages and paying taxes, and on the path to citizenship if they earn it), we can neutralize much of the motivation for entering the US.
Immigrants throughout history have always done the jobs no one else wants to do, and its no different for Hispanics in the southwest. And we have built an economy that relies, in part, on the ill-gotten fruits of their labors
I have always voted for Democratics since Jimmy Carter. But if Obama and the Democrats sell out america in the search of hispanic votes I will vote republican. Arizona is d a great doing a great thing in fighting the crime of illegally entering this country. The solution is to round up all illegals and send them home. At the same timme we need to put people who hire illegals into jail. We should make it clear that the american dream does not include sneaking into our coutry. Maybe Mexico should open it's borders to a flood of Americans??
Let's try something different. Instead of racial profiling, let's impose penalties on people who employ or house illegals without e-verify or some other official confirmation of status. Mandatory minimum 6 months jail and a $100,000 fine will make people think twice about dealing with illegals. Without a place to stay or an income, they will self deport and the US taxpayer saves $.
Their illegality cannot be forgiven because they "work hard".Can the bank robber be forgiven for his crime because he donated some of the loot to charity? You cannot overcome the crime with later good deeds! You still must suffer the consequences of your wrongdoing.
When will employers be held accountable for hiring undocumented workers and not complying with current laws. Cheap labor has always been an unspoken need in this country.
And why has the governor signed this law now during an election year? Won't this law dissuade most Hispanic voters who vote democratic stay away from the polls due to fear?
Idea 1: If illegal immigrants bother you so much, put your money where your mouth is. Boycott all industry affected by the hiring of illegaal immigrants. No more produce, things made in the construction industry, no more eating out.
Idea 2: To combat this unjust law, all citizens in Arizona who are clearly caucasion need to bombard police on a daily basis and state that they have no proof of citizenship and demand to be ticketed or taken downtown. Clog thier courts, clog their jails.
Michael in Dallas
Regarding comments I have heard on the air - in Spain, Italy, and presumedly other countries in the EU when you are stopped by police, the first step is to check your documention which ascertains both your identity and whether you are 'in order' (legal status and other). So the idea that this will bring shame to the US is off, it actually brings us up to speed with some other countries. And to the comment that a law like this is comparable to Nazis....shame on you. There is a difference between enforcing legal status and racial persecution.
Might this bill be really just a political move with little legal substance? Are not issues of immigration pre-empted by federal law? Or wouldn't the US Constitution, under the dormant commerce clause, prevent such actions by states that infringe on interstate commerce? Civil rights such as equality under law? My wife is a US national and a Latin by birt - is she going to be pulled over because of her national origin? Be careful if you're Italian, or Jewish, or Asian, or Eastern European, or have dark hair, or of a dusky sheen... or....
I am a natural born US citizen, descended from diverse European immigrants from the early 20th century all the way back to the 17th century. My wife is a third-generation natural-born US citizen, descended from both Spanish and Native Americans of the southwest of North America and Central America. Both our families have been on this continent for many generations and legally in the US for at least three.
I look quite Caucasian, while she appears Hispanic. We have occasionally encountered prejudiced people who seem to view us as "mixing races" in an offensive way. As a result we have decided that we are better off not visiting Arizona while this law is on the books, in lieu of carrying documents to prove our right to be in our own country. Imagine the difficulty of getting stopped by the police, and being arrested if we didn't satisfy them as to why I was driving around with a Latino woman in my car?
Way to generalize... you stated "how does an immigrant take your jobs like the ones you mentioned when they barely speak english and have no highschool or collage degrees". Wow, so people coming to this country illegally can't speak English nor are they educated?
By your 'logic' the only country that teaches English is the USA and the only country that has an education systeam is the USA.
Joyce is absolutely right. The most effective method to eliminate illegal immigration is to effectively manage employment. As a former State of Florida Administrator, we were required to certify that we had checked on the status of any prospective employee, and to obtain any needed documentation before hiring them. We were subject to disciplinary action up to dismissal if we failed in this assignment. As far as I know, we never hired any illegal workers, but private contractors working in our building were caught doing so more than once, when it was obvious their workers were undocumented.
This Arizona law is not the approprate response, as it would result in racial profiling and would be ineffective. If illegals cannot work, they will go home, period.
EJ
My question is whether we know the demographics of the people coming from Mexico illegally? I wonder if there aren't many people and families who are good, hardworking people and are seeking refuge from Mexico's violence and a better life for their families? It seems that there is always the link between undocumented immigrants from Mexico and crime. Has that been shown to be true in a large percentage of cases studied?
If the Arizona law in not a basic violation of civil rights could we not have laws that allow police to question or search anyone carrying a firearm. That person may belong to a militia like the Hutaree, therefore he or she may be terrorists.
By adding citizenship proof on a state ID or driver's license, the only ID needed would be that. If you are only asked for proof upon breaking some other law, you will need to supply your ID anyway.
There's an illuminating new report from UNC-Chapel Hill about the negative affects 287G has on local communities, and the inconsistencies with which law enforcement applies and justifies the program. http://isa.unc.edu/migration/287g_report_final.pdf
We went through this same issue in Prince William County, VA. The police were directed to ask anyone lawfully stopped by the police who they could reasonably determine was in the country without proper immigration status to ask for documentation that they were in the country legally. The proposed ordinance caused a furious uproar, divided the county (even though initially 70% supported it), cost the county money as many members of the Latino commnunity left leaving businesses and homes behind, and basically leaving a black mark on the county's name.
AND, after a year in effect, the ordinance was repealed becuase the police chief refused to enact the policy without the county sending 2 million dollars to place cameras on each police car to ensure that the police officers would not be sued for racial profiling.
These laws do not work and do damage to the communities where they are enacted.
I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, what means that I'm a US citizen who speaks Spanish as first language. Even though I don't look like a Latino 'ilegal alien', I wasn't be able to come to one of my previews jobs until I bring prove that of my legal situation in the US. I let them know that I was a US citizen but they refused to let me get in the work place until I bring my 'papers'. I was preatty offended because none of my English speakers co workers were asked to bring any type of 'prove'.
The racial profiling would come not only because how do you look but how do you speak. I do understand the worry of my co-citizens, but the law has to be fair for all. Not racial profiling can be aloud in in this country.
I am a retired police officer from NH. The federal government has failed in dealing with illegal aliens. The key word here is illegal. These people are breaking the law, committing a crime. They are criminals. I would be interested in seeing what the people who came into this country legally and worked to be an American citizen think. It is usually those breaking the law or those who have something to gain who do the most complaining.